Converting Instruments
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:21 pm
- Finale Version: Mac2011
Good morning. I thought I had posted this question last week. But I cannot find it nor a reply. Thus, I am re-entering.
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Some help from my colleagues, please. I am basically a woodwinds' arranger, typically clarinet ensembles first. But I also do and play in other small mixed ensembles. For the sake of efficiency, I would love to be able to take, for example, a clarinet duet I have just done, and convert it to mixed duet, say, flute over clarinet. I realize, of course, that there still would be editing involved regarding tessitura, voice leading, etc. But being able to "import" much of the note entry would be a huge help.
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Is there a sequence of steps or tasks to do such a transformation in PrintMusic? I seem to be able to change key signature or instrument [for playback], but NOT retain the concert versus written paradigm.
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Appreciate it!
.
Some help from my colleagues, please. I am basically a woodwinds' arranger, typically clarinet ensembles first. But I also do and play in other small mixed ensembles. For the sake of efficiency, I would love to be able to take, for example, a clarinet duet I have just done, and convert it to mixed duet, say, flute over clarinet. I realize, of course, that there still would be editing involved regarding tessitura, voice leading, etc. But being able to "import" much of the note entry would be a huge help.
.
Is there a sequence of steps or tasks to do such a transformation in PrintMusic? I seem to be able to change key signature or instrument [for playback], but NOT retain the concert versus written paradigm.
.
Appreciate it!
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I don't know PrintMusic, so this is a "shot in the dark":
If I understand you correctly, you want to change the Staff Transposition, e. g. from Bb (= Clarinet) to C (= Flute), so that both layout and playback are correct.
This is done with the Staff Tool.
Double-click the staff you want to change.
In the Staff Attributes, change the Staff Transposition (click "Transposition").
If I understand you correctly, you want to change the Staff Transposition, e. g. from Bb (= Clarinet) to C (= Flute), so that both layout and playback are correct.
This is done with the Staff Tool.
Double-click the staff you want to change.
In the Staff Attributes, change the Staff Transposition (click "Transposition").
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:21 pm
- Finale Version: Mac2011
Dear Mr. Thomsen: Shazaam [a la Gomer Pyle]! It works just as you instructed. Thank you. Sometimes with computer programs, one is in the moon until s/he discerns the programmer's perspective, paradigm or philosophy. So to speak, you got me looking in the right direction. However, there are a few footnotes in order.
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Your instruction indeed works ... BUT it leaves the song in its originally entered key [under Concert Pitch in Documents].
HOWEVER, it performs and writes out the transposition if one toggles off Concert Pitch in Documents.
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As with most operations involving transposing instruments, I suppose one needs to remember WHAT instrument is the focus and where you are, concert or transposed, at all times. Case in point. But, your suggestion is a good one. It works ... with footnotes!
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Thanks again for the help.
.
Your instruction indeed works ... BUT it leaves the song in its originally entered key [under Concert Pitch in Documents].
HOWEVER, it performs and writes out the transposition if one toggles off Concert Pitch in Documents.
.
As with most operations involving transposing instruments, I suppose one needs to remember WHAT instrument is the focus and where you are, concert or transposed, at all times. Case in point. But, your suggestion is a good one. It works ... with footnotes!
.
Thanks again for the help.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:21 pm
- Finale Version: Mac2011
Dear, may I now call you, Peter?
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Looks like I spoke too soon. Sorry -- for both or all of us. Upon further study and experimentation, your suggested solution: 1] does not impact BOTH instruments of a duet, for example; it treats JUST the staff in question; 2] does not account for the transposing INSTRUMENT per se; the transposition JUST changes the written key of the staff in question; and 3] thus, does not affect playback; playback is still based on the concert pitch key entered version.
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Apparently, the Staff tool changes just the staff under study. And clicking ANY transposition option in that window ONLY produces changes in the written part on paper!
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I am going back to the drawing board and do more experimenting. Meanwhile, if you or anyone can solve my dilemma, I'd still welcome the help.
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P.S. I am an engineer by profession. I feel comfortable with algebra and optimization. Transposition of course is just algebra. And for my problem, if the best solution only optimizes the problem, so be it. Perhaps PrintMusic does not have an intrinsic way of doing what I want. Maybe, one just has to MANUALLY do staff by staff?
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Looks like I spoke too soon. Sorry -- for both or all of us. Upon further study and experimentation, your suggested solution: 1] does not impact BOTH instruments of a duet, for example; it treats JUST the staff in question; 2] does not account for the transposing INSTRUMENT per se; the transposition JUST changes the written key of the staff in question; and 3] thus, does not affect playback; playback is still based on the concert pitch key entered version.
.
Apparently, the Staff tool changes just the staff under study. And clicking ANY transposition option in that window ONLY produces changes in the written part on paper!
.
I am going back to the drawing board and do more experimenting. Meanwhile, if you or anyone can solve my dilemma, I'd still welcome the help.
.
P.S. I am an engineer by profession. I feel comfortable with algebra and optimization. Transposition of course is just algebra. And for my problem, if the best solution only optimizes the problem, so be it. Perhaps PrintMusic does not have an intrinsic way of doing what I want. Maybe, one just has to MANUALLY do staff by staff?
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I am sorry, but I do not understand your dilemma.
As Far As I Can Tell, there is no problem.
PrintMusic is doing precisely what it should do for you.
In a mixed duet for flute and clarinet, the flute is a C instrument so that Concert Key and Written Key are the same.
If e. g. the Concert Key is Bb major, then the flute's key signature should display 2 flats (Bb major).
The clarinet, On The Other Hand, is a Bb instrument: Concert Key and Written Key are not the same.
If e. g. the Concert Key is Bb major, then the clarinet's key signature should display 0 flats (C major).
What is your dilemma?
Please describe what you want to achieve; what you do when you try to achieve it; What happens; and what doesn't happen that you expected.
As Far As I Can Tell, there is no problem.
PrintMusic is doing precisely what it should do for you.
In a mixed duet for flute and clarinet, the flute is a C instrument so that Concert Key and Written Key are the same.
If e. g. the Concert Key is Bb major, then the flute's key signature should display 2 flats (Bb major).
The clarinet, On The Other Hand, is a Bb instrument: Concert Key and Written Key are not the same.
If e. g. the Concert Key is Bb major, then the clarinet's key signature should display 0 flats (C major).
What is your dilemma?
Please describe what you want to achieve; what you do when you try to achieve it; What happens; and what doesn't happen that you expected.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
I know this is an old thread, and admit I might not fully understand the question.
But for example, I do a LOT of hymns for various instruments.
During my setup time, I set up [for example] Eb Alto Sax, Bb Trumpet, C Trumpet, and Trombones.
I enter all the Treble stuff into C Trumpet and all the Bass clef stuff into Trombone.
Now KNOWING that my Bb Trumpets can't transpose on the fly, I COPY the C Trumpet staff and PASTE it into the Bb Trumpet staff............. it does all the transposition FOR you.
Now what if I want to have the Trombone do melody sometimes? I COPY the C Trumpet staff and PASTE it into the other Trombone staff.... the only remaining task is to use the Utility to transpose it DOWN one octave............
Same thing for Eb Sax............. copy the C Trumpet melody line, PASTE it into the Eb Sax staff, and presto, it transposes it FOR you.................
What if I had a Bb Trumpet that I wanted to put into Eb Sax? input it into a staff prepared for Bb Trumpet, COPY it, and PASTE it into the Eb staff............. PrintMusic does it all FOR you.
Good Luck,
LarryR
But for example, I do a LOT of hymns for various instruments.
During my setup time, I set up [for example] Eb Alto Sax, Bb Trumpet, C Trumpet, and Trombones.
I enter all the Treble stuff into C Trumpet and all the Bass clef stuff into Trombone.
Now KNOWING that my Bb Trumpets can't transpose on the fly, I COPY the C Trumpet staff and PASTE it into the Bb Trumpet staff............. it does all the transposition FOR you.
Now what if I want to have the Trombone do melody sometimes? I COPY the C Trumpet staff and PASTE it into the other Trombone staff.... the only remaining task is to use the Utility to transpose it DOWN one octave............
Same thing for Eb Sax............. copy the C Trumpet melody line, PASTE it into the Eb Sax staff, and presto, it transposes it FOR you.................
What if I had a Bb Trumpet that I wanted to put into Eb Sax? input it into a staff prepared for Bb Trumpet, COPY it, and PASTE it into the Eb staff............. PrintMusic does it all FOR you.
Good Luck,
LarryR
PC; Windows XP
Started NotePad 5/19/10, then
Got PrintMusic this evening; 5/24/10
Started NotePad 5/19/10, then
Got PrintMusic this evening; 5/24/10
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- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:09 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
I'm trying to accomplish something similar (I think). I am writing for guitar so I would like the written music to play back an octave lower than what is actually written, i.e., transposed for guitar. I don't see any transposition options when I use the Staff Tool. I see the following options only:
Break barlines between staves
Hide staff
Display repeat endings
Display measure numbers
Redisplay accidentals in other layers within measure
Alternate notation (settings: slash, rhythmic, one-bar repeats, normal)
Any help is greatly appreciated thanks
Finale PrintMusic 2014.v820
Break barlines between staves
Hide staff
Display repeat endings
Display measure numbers
Redisplay accidentals in other layers within measure
Alternate notation (settings: slash, rhythmic, one-bar repeats, normal)
Any help is greatly appreciated thanks
Finale PrintMusic 2014.v820
Finale 25
Windows 10 Pro
Windows 10 Pro
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Welcome to the forum!
I do not know PrintMusic.
The following is for the “full Finale”, and PrintMusic may be different:
a) Since you are using the 2014 version, you should look in the ScoreManager, in the chiclet Instrument List.
In the “full Finale” the Instrument List has a pop-up menu for Staff Transposition where you can choose “Octave Up” transposition.
NB:
During note entry you will hear Written Pitch (= an octave too high).
But playback will be correct when you click the Playback button.
b) Another option is the octave-transposing Treble Clef (a. k. a. the Guitar Clef).
When using the Guitar Clef the Written Pitch is the same as the Concert Pitch.
In Other Words: There is no transposition.
This means that you hear correct playback both during note entry and when you click the Playback button.
See the two attached documents.
I do not know PrintMusic.
The following is for the “full Finale”, and PrintMusic may be different:
a) Since you are using the 2014 version, you should look in the ScoreManager, in the chiclet Instrument List.
In the “full Finale” the Instrument List has a pop-up menu for Staff Transposition where you can choose “Octave Up” transposition.
NB:
During note entry you will hear Written Pitch (= an octave too high).
But playback will be correct when you click the Playback button.
b) Another option is the octave-transposing Treble Clef (a. k. a. the Guitar Clef).
When using the Guitar Clef the Written Pitch is the same as the Concert Pitch.
In Other Words: There is no transposition.
This means that you hear correct playback both during note entry and when you click the Playback button.
See the two attached documents.
- Attachments
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- Guitar-1.musx.zip
- (84.48 KiB) Downloaded 269 times
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- Guitar-2.musx.zip
- (84.09 KiB) Downloaded 257 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Look at the top "menu" bar line; it has a choice of "Utilities" as stated in my earlier post. That is where you transpose an octave down or up, or any other steps you might have in mind, but I think you're looking for an "octave" transposition........... Main point is look for "Utilites" at the top, click it, then click transpose, etc...............stanb wrote:I'm trying to accomplish something similar (I think). I am writing for guitar so I would like the written music to play back an octave lower than what is actually written, i.e., transposed for guitar. I don't see any transposition options when I use the Staff Tool. I see the following options only:
Break barlines between staves
Hide staff
Display repeat endings
Display measure numbers
Redisplay accidentals in other layers within measure
Alternate notation (settings: slash, rhythmic, one-bar repeats, normal)
Any help is greatly appreciated thanks
Finale PrintMusic 2014.v820
Don't keep looking only in the "staff" menu....... go to "Utilities".........
Good Luck,
LarryR
PC; Windows XP
Started NotePad 5/19/10, then
Got PrintMusic this evening; 5/24/10
Started NotePad 5/19/10, then
Got PrintMusic this evening; 5/24/10
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- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:09 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Thanks LariRudi but I guess the transpose utility is not what I want. I want to transpose the pitch down an octave and keep the notes where they are. Is there any way to do that?
Finale 25
Windows 10 Pro
Windows 10 Pro
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Did you read my previous post (3 posts above this post)?stanb wrote:Thanks LariRudi but I guess the transpose utility is not what I want. I want to transpose the pitch down an octave and keep the notes where they are. Is there any way to do that?
a) Does your version of PrintMusic give you access to the staff transposition, e. g. via the ScoreManager?
If yes, then change the staff transposition to “Octave Up” transposition.
b) Does your version of PrintMusic give you access to the Clef Tool?
If yes, then change the clef to the “Treble Clef with an 8 below it”.
c) If neither a) nor b) is possible in PrintMusic, try setting up a new document with the Document Setup Wizard.
Among the instruments available in the wizard, is there a Guitar?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:09 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25
- Operating System: Windows
Peter,
I somehow missed your earlier posts. Using ScoreManager worked. I set the instrument to Guitar and it automatically transposed up an octave so it sounds as written for guitar. Thank you! And thanks for the attachments. They were a big help!
Stan
I somehow missed your earlier posts. Using ScoreManager worked. I set the instrument to Guitar and it automatically transposed up an octave so it sounds as written for guitar. Thank you! And thanks for the attachments. They were a big help!
Stan
Finale 25
Windows 10 Pro
Windows 10 Pro