Mixed Key Signatures

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alanbass
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Post by alanbass » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:21 am

I need to create some mixed key signatures, e.g., Bb, Eb, C# with an A root. Nice eastern-sounding 7 step scale. But the Non-Standard key sig dialog is confounding and the online help files not much help. Can someone here advise?
Finale 2012; MacBookPro 15"; El Capitan 10.11.6
Thanks.


alanbass
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Post by alanbass » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:59 am

thanks for your comments, Ron. I have studied the tutorials but maybe not enough to get past my confusion. Ah, but I am working in these artificial modes and excessive accidentals can be a hindrance as well. (As can my handwritten chicken scratches.) Just seems like there oughta be an easier (or at least more intuitive) way.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:36 pm

For What It Is Worth, here is an example I made some years ago.
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GypsyScale2012.mus
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Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:00 pm

I use non-standard key signatures rarely, if ever. I was able to take Peter's file and change it to the example mentioned in the original post (Bb, Eb, C#). It wasn't that hard. I know there are many examples in the literature where these mixes occur, so it is do-able and appropriate. I just wish Finale made it easier. I believe the way MuseScore does it is easy, but it is lacking in many ways, so the difficulty in Finale is probably due to the thoroughness and increased functionality of the method used.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:45 pm

I imagine in a typical use for a non-standard key signature--an eastern folk song, for example--the piece wouldn't modulate, so I'm not sure that's a strong counter argument.

I had a look at the documentation and found it baffling as well, and I am technically oriented.

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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:17 pm

zuill wrote:I use non-standard key signatures rarely, if ever. I was able to take Peter's file and change it to the example mentioned in the original post (Bb, Eb, C#). It wasn't that hard. I know there are many examples in the literature where these mixes occur, so it is do-able and appropriate. I just wish Finale made it easier. I believe the way MuseScore does it is easy, but it is lacking in many ways, so the difficulty in Finale is probably due to the thoroughness and increased functionality of the method used.

Zuill
I have no interest in taking the time to try this but...

If it's simple in MuseScore, I'd try it then export the file as .xml. I'd think that Finale would leave it that way on import. Now you can add as many measures as you like.

I really dislike MuseScore but, if it works...
Mike Halloran

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:59 pm

After doing a simple test, I realize there is still quite a bit of fixup work in Finale, so it doesn't make any sense to use MuseScore. In MuseScore, there isn't a way, from what I can see, to get the proper placement of the sharps and flats in the bass staff (or any staff but treble). And, the custom key signature doesn't affect the notes in the score, so to get proper playback, one needs to enter all the accidentals. Go figure.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu May 11, 2017 7:55 pm

I studied up on non-traditional signatures a bit. It's very arcane, and I don't fully understand it. But I made a cookbook that works for custom key signatures that stick to flats and sharps found in normal key signatures--i.e., no double flats or sharps, no B-sharp, F-flat, etc. It worked on the O.P.'s request here. Zip file is the document.
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NonTradKey.zip
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mixed.musx
(85.05 KiB) Downloaded 210 times
0186.png
0186.png (28.75 KiB) Viewed 5237 times

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