Returning to Finale (after using Logic&Sibelius for 10+yrs)
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
Just upgraded from Finale 2004b to Finale 25 on sale! Exciting! (Apple OS X 10.11.6 desktop, 10.12 MacBook Pro)
Been using Logic Pro 9, Sibelius (from ~2006 to this year when they switched to subscription), and some other music software.
Trying to write/engrave VERY basic parts for cello/viola (as a teacher) has been silly-difficult for me so far! I'm a week in, and I'm trying to find a decent keyboard with a num pad (the one I had doesn't cooperate with Finale). I've got one working, still shopping around for something that fits on my desk (cooler master masterkeys pro M is hard to get to work on OS X apparently, numlock is an issue...) Other than that, I'm also lost about shortcuts.
I tried hyper scribe with my Midi keyboard, but can't quantize appropriately (I want to select notes, quantize those to 16ths select another group, quantize to quarters, etc). Also, even if I do get it quantized and looking good, it doesn't quantize the playback. Is this normal?
As far as shortcuts, the video on "why you should switch from Sibelius to Finale" says things like "You want to use the shortcuts from Sibelius or any other program? You can create your own!" but it doesn't seem to be so easy... For example, sibelius has numpad Enter to tie notes, and S to put a slur on a note (then hit space bar to lengthen the slur to the next note, repeat pressing space bar for how many notes you want the slur to extend).
These types of things, along with string instrument fingerings are terribly obtuse in Finale 25 - why are they articulations, and why is there no zero for open strings? Also, is there a better way than using the mouse? I haven't found any keyboard shortcut to add articulation to a selected note... Is there even a shortcut to select different tools (simple entry, quick entry, hyper, page layout, measure tool, et al)?
I feel like I'm doing something wrong here... I composed in Finale 2003/2004 and engraved and midi-programmed a piece that got me a full conservatory scholarship for film scoring. I feel like a 14 year old idiot learning this software! What's up? Am I doing it wrong, or is Finale behind the times and maybe I need to cut my losses and look at Dorico? (I don't want the e-licenser on top of the iLok I already have) Should I compose in Logic with quantize and all that then export to MIDI or XML to bring into Finale for articulations and dynamics and slurs and what not?
What's the "best" way to compose (or write out worksheets or student exercises) in Finale 25?
[[Lastly, I see screenshots of Windows users who have a unified windows with nothing floating - is this possible on Mac?]]
Been using Logic Pro 9, Sibelius (from ~2006 to this year when they switched to subscription), and some other music software.
Trying to write/engrave VERY basic parts for cello/viola (as a teacher) has been silly-difficult for me so far! I'm a week in, and I'm trying to find a decent keyboard with a num pad (the one I had doesn't cooperate with Finale). I've got one working, still shopping around for something that fits on my desk (cooler master masterkeys pro M is hard to get to work on OS X apparently, numlock is an issue...) Other than that, I'm also lost about shortcuts.
I tried hyper scribe with my Midi keyboard, but can't quantize appropriately (I want to select notes, quantize those to 16ths select another group, quantize to quarters, etc). Also, even if I do get it quantized and looking good, it doesn't quantize the playback. Is this normal?
As far as shortcuts, the video on "why you should switch from Sibelius to Finale" says things like "You want to use the shortcuts from Sibelius or any other program? You can create your own!" but it doesn't seem to be so easy... For example, sibelius has numpad Enter to tie notes, and S to put a slur on a note (then hit space bar to lengthen the slur to the next note, repeat pressing space bar for how many notes you want the slur to extend).
These types of things, along with string instrument fingerings are terribly obtuse in Finale 25 - why are they articulations, and why is there no zero for open strings? Also, is there a better way than using the mouse? I haven't found any keyboard shortcut to add articulation to a selected note... Is there even a shortcut to select different tools (simple entry, quick entry, hyper, page layout, measure tool, et al)?
I feel like I'm doing something wrong here... I composed in Finale 2003/2004 and engraved and midi-programmed a piece that got me a full conservatory scholarship for film scoring. I feel like a 14 year old idiot learning this software! What's up? Am I doing it wrong, or is Finale behind the times and maybe I need to cut my losses and look at Dorico? (I don't want the e-licenser on top of the iLok I already have) Should I compose in Logic with quantize and all that then export to MIDI or XML to bring into Finale for articulations and dynamics and slurs and what not?
What's the "best" way to compose (or write out worksheets or student exercises) in Finale 25?
[[Lastly, I see screenshots of Windows users who have a unified windows with nothing floating - is this possible on Mac?]]
- miker
- Posts: 6012
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Welcome to the forum!
You have lots of questions! Some I can try to answer, others will have to wait for somebody smarter than me.
As far as a keyboard for the Mac, get yourself an Apple Extended Keyboard. It's plug in, not wireless, but it has the integrated numberpad. For the laptop, every USB numberpad I've tried has worked.
Shortcuts are different; you will either have to learn them, or reprogram them (if you can.) I have a lot of them programmed to F keys, and some Ctrl+ combinations, directly through the Apple keyboard control panel.
I wish that Finale had a slur setup like that, but it doesn't. As far as I know, the mouse is the only way. Ties, on the other hand, are easy: either numpad /, or QWERTY keyboard T.
Mac windows float. I haven't found it to be a problem, though.
You have lots of questions! Some I can try to answer, others will have to wait for somebody smarter than me.
As far as a keyboard for the Mac, get yourself an Apple Extended Keyboard. It's plug in, not wireless, but it has the integrated numberpad. For the laptop, every USB numberpad I've tried has worked.
Shortcuts are different; you will either have to learn them, or reprogram them (if you can.) I have a lot of them programmed to F keys, and some Ctrl+ combinations, directly through the Apple keyboard control panel.
I wish that Finale had a slur setup like that, but it doesn't. As far as I know, the mouse is the only way. Ties, on the other hand, are easy: either numpad /, or QWERTY keyboard T.
Mac windows float. I haven't found it to be a problem, though.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I recommend that you make a duplicate copy of the tutorial document “EntryExercises.musx”, and go through the exercises.jhclark wrote:… Also, is there a better way than using the mouse? I haven't found any keyboard shortcut to add articulation to a selected note …
The tutorial answers your two questions quoted above, and reveals a lot of secrets.
Path:
Library/Application Support/MakeMusic/Finale/Music Files/Toturials/EntryExercises.musx
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
miker wrote:Welcome to the forum!
You have lots of questions! Some I can try to answer, others will have to wait for somebody smarter than me.
[...]
I wish that Finale had a slur setup like that, but it doesn't. As far as I know, the mouse is the only way. Ties, on the other hand, are easy: either numpad /, or QWERTY keyboard T.
Thanks, and sorry for the bombardment!
Thanks for the tie-shortcut, that's going to save a bunch of time, but the slur thing is annoying as heck... Hopefully there's a way to get around that!
Thanks for taking the time to help out!!
- motet
- Posts: 8284
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
Good question why there isn't a 0 fingering, but it's easy to make one. Duplicate one of the other fingerings, edit the duplicate, and change the character to 0.
They're intended to be applied with "metatools." Hold down 1 and click on the note to place a 1.
They're intended to be applied with "metatools." Hold down 1 and click on the note to place a 1.
motet wrote:They're intended to be applied with "metatools." Hold down 1 and click on the note to place a 1.
That's easier than what I was doing, by FAR.
That said - is there any way at all to do it without a mouse? I'm thinking about when I'm using my MacBook Pro and don't want to travel with a USB mouse. Trackpad is not great at all for that kind of precision stuff - maybe I need a gaming mouse if I want to be quick and accurate?
Come on, I know many of us are composers and arrangers, but some of us make our living by engraving, and engravers (As well as arrangers, I'd wager) have some sort of value on their time, meaning speed, efficiency and accuracy are all priority (over how a notation program "sounds" on playback... I'd take a better engraving engine and leave out the GPO and PhotoScore... wait...).
- motet
- Posts: 8284
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
Read the entire chapter on Simple Entry in the manual. You can enter notes using A,B,C,D,E,F,G, and add articulations like fingerings as you enter the notes. So to enter a quarter note C with a "2" fingering, you'd type 5 on the keypad for a quarter note, C for C, * on the keypad to enter an articulation, and then 2, which is the metatool for the fingering. I myself don't have much experience with this method, but it should cut your mousing down. But you'll need to study the manual and endure a learning curve. If you don't have a keypad on your laptop, I think there's an alternate key set you can use, but others here will have advice about that.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I suppose that you still have not gone through the tutorial document “EntryExercises.musx”, right?jhclark wrote:… That said - is there any way at all to do it without a mouse? …
(I mentioned “EntryExercises.musx” in my previous post)
In “EntryExercises.musx” it is revealed how you can enter notes, and add articulations via the computer keyboard - without using the mouse.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
Apple has a page that addresses some issues:
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH21535?lo ... cale=en_US
http://www.mymac.com/2014/12/newertech- ... ad-review/
Apple does have a wireless extended keyboard—finally! It was announced in June. Like the Magic Trackpad 2, it charges from a lightning cable with zero downtime once plugged in (no batteries to change).
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ05 ... us-english
The Matias is similar and some like them.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Matias/FK418BTS/
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH21535?lo ... cale=en_US
Yes, there are a number of wireless and USB num-pads that work; some even have the forward-delete key—not all do (deal breaker for me if it's missing). This has both delete keys and the fn key in a convenient location so that the Tab key can function as Clear. It's not quite th same as having the Apple Extended but you are not missing any functionality, unlike some numeric keypads for the Mac.As far as a keyboard for the Mac, get yourself an Apple Extended Keyboard. It's plug in, not wireless, but it has the integrated numberpad. For the laptop, every USB numberpad I've tried has worked.
http://www.mymac.com/2014/12/newertech- ... ad-review/
Apple does have a wireless extended keyboard—finally! It was announced in June. Like the Magic Trackpad 2, it charges from a lightning cable with zero downtime once plugged in (no batteries to change).
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ05 ... us-english
The Matias is similar and some like them.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Matias/FK418BTS/
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
Uh... a cup of my wife's coffee did that for me.miker wrote:Thanks for the lead on those keyboards, Mike. As soon as this one goes south...
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro