System scaling

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 am

I've always found Finale's system scaling adequate for my needs so the setting always seemed a mysterious thing glimpsed when in the Page Format settings for other reasons. But I finally read the Help page:
Set the staff height, then apply a percentage to the value. The static text is the cumulative effect for all staves in the score.
Tip: The absolute staff height is 96 EVPUs (.3333 inches or .8467 cm).
A bit cryptic, but my interpretation of this is that Resulting System Scaling ("the static text") is equal to Staff Height / 96 x Scale System (the tip is essential).

I guess I wonder why they chose this way to specify 85% in the default document:
0359.png
0359.png (3.74 KiB) Viewed 5949 times
instead of this way:
0360.png
0360.png (3.76 KiB) Viewed 5949 times
(To me, anyway, it seems more intuitive to fix Staff Height at 96 and vary the percentage.)

Or, when Finale was first born, did they have a printed piece of music thought to have a good staff size, and so measured it, converted to EVPUs, and entered 82, which results in 85%? Is there a Finale Historian?

I'll admit that on a few occasions, desiring to match the staff size to some scanned old edition in order to make a patch with a paint program, I've just blundered along changing Staff Height by trial and error until they matched (somewhat laborious with the writing of graphics files for each trial) . If I had known, I could have converted DPI to EVPUs and got it right the first time.
Last edited by motet on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.


BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Finale's Ideal Staff Height is a third of an inch, or ... 24 points. And the music font is designed to display at that size. So the symbols in Maestro at 24pt will fit perfectly on a full-size staff. And it's close to traditional Rastral gauge 1.

The Resulting Scaling is just the % size of your staff compared to the Ideal Staff. You're using EVPUs, so 96 EVPUs = 100%. (with no % System scaling!) I use points, so 24pt = 100%, and 20.5pt is 85%. Perhaps they could have used 100 EVPUs for the staff height, so the size would match the %, but then that's not such a useful, divisible size. (You could also achieve 85% with 96 EVPUs at 85% System Scaling, of course.)

Finale added System Scaling some time later, and the whole thing could now do with a re-design. The Resulting System Scaling doesn't include the Page Scaling, of course. I think it would be more useful if the resulting scaling gave you an "actual height", rather than a %.

You can enter cm or inches as the Staff Height. It's certainly recommended to EITHER use System % Scaling OR Staff Height, but not both.

Many of Finale's Document Options are Relative Values to the Ideal Staff Height, not the Actual Staff Height. As is the Spaces Unit, I think, though I stay away from that as it's too confusing.
Last edited by BuonTempi on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:44 pm

BuonTempi wrote:… Many of Finale's Document Options are Relative Values to the Ideal Staff Height, not the Actual Staff Height. As is the Spaces Unit, I think, though I stay away from that as it's too confusing.
There are two different types of Space:

1) Space as Measurement Unit:
1 Space = 6 Points
1 Pica = 2 Spaces

2) Space as the distance between two neighbour staff-lines.
This type of space, indeed, is a relative value, depending on the actual document settings.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

rubberfingers
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Post by rubberfingers » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:39 pm

What sizing is considered "standard"? It seems like the Finale default is too big, but I've been unable to find what is considered a minimum size for, say, piano or organ. Trying to fit as much on a page as reasonable!

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:48 pm

I have always considered that there is no standard. Every publisher has house styles for different projects, but even that may not be set in stone (or lead in the old days).

Zuill
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rubberfingers
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Post by rubberfingers » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:22 am

Well, I'm curious what people consider a minimum size for practical piano/organ scores. Any opinions?

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:11 am

Take a ruler to some sheet music you think is good. I don't think Finale's default is too big, FWIW.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:02 am

Elaine Gould on page 483 of her book Behind Bars recommends that piano staves are within a height range of 6.5mm to 7mm, with a maximum ‘less frequently’ used range of 6mm to 7.4mm. I think Finale's default may be 7.2mm.
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rubberfingers
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Post by rubberfingers » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:57 pm

Thank you, David. Your value of 7.2mm seems to match 85% of 0.333in mentioned in this thread. 6.5mm is 90% of 7.2, and 6mm is 83% of 7.2mm. I think with this I can figure something out! That book sounds like a great resource.

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