Hi All -
I'm trying to wrap my head around what seems to be a major flaw in Finale, specifically the inability to write contrasting, independent rhythms.
If I have one staff playing a bar of 4/4 and another staff playing a bar of 5/4 - it plays "5 in the time of 4" - the two measures take up the same amount of time and coincide with each other. This is instead of a so-called "staggered barline", where the two staffs would only line up every 20 bars or so, maintaining their independent meters.
I understand there are dozens upon dozens of questions about this in the Finale forums.
What I'd like to know is:
1. Since many of the previous posts date back as far as the mid-2000s, is this something that can be better dealt with in Finale 25?
2. Does Finale have plans to ever rectify this issue?
3. Is there a notation software that people use to write music in this manner?
Thanks
Polyrhythms, Barlines, Multiple Meters, etc.
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
hthaw wrote:… I'm trying to wrap my head around what seems to be a major flaw in Finale, specifically the inability to write contrasting, independent rhythms …
If I understand you correctly, you are working on a Finale document with “contrasting, independent rhythms”, right?hthaw wrote:… If I have one staff playing a bar of 4/4 and another staff playing a bar of 5/4 - it plays "5 in the time of 4" - the two measures take up the same amount of time and coincide with each other. This is instead of a so-called "staggered barline", where the two staffs would only line up every 20 bars or so, maintaining their independent meters …
What is not clear to me, is in what way the rhythms should be contrasting and independent ?!?
* Do you need the barlines to line up so that the quarter note speed is independent (= the measures take up the same amount of time and coincide with each other)?
* Or do you need the beats to line up so that the barlines are independent (= the quarter note speed is the same in both staves)?
* Or should the two staves be independent in both quarter note speed and measure duration (= fully independent tempo, and e. g. accelerando in one staff while constant tempo in the other)?
All these three layouts can be done in Finale - via various different tricks/workarounds.
Now to your questions:
1. If I recall correctly, there have not been any changes in the Time Signature Tool for the last 20 years.
The tricks/workarounds for the layouts mentioned above are the same in Finale 25.
2. MakeMusic has a {feature request forum} on its own web site.
The folks from MakeMusic contribute regularly in that feature request forum - with info about the development plans for future Finale versions.
Have you been looking in that feature request forum?
URL:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... t_activity
3. Music notation with contrasting, independent rhythms is a demanding task - not easy and simple in any program.
I suppose that you know - or know of - the other music notation programs, and the difficulties in them when it comes to contrasting, independent rhythms?
Dorico looks promising, but it is not yet fully developed.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Obviously it does not make sense to have measure numbers when the barlines are staggered.Jay Emmes wrote:If the quarter note in both time signatures has the same length (beats per minute), they have to line up.
Imagine the confusion during a rehearsal: Play from measure 42.
Instead you could use rehearsal letters: Play from letter K.
Anyway, here is a way to do it.
* See the attached Finale document.
- Attachments
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- StaggeredBarlines.musx
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Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996