Finale Forum

Well, I've gone ahead and downloaded the free-trial version of Finale's most expensive product (apparently what I need for what I'm trying to notate). However, already I'm running into issues. Even trying to start a new file seems so complicated. Do I want a template? Libaries? Set-up wizard? I don't know. How many hours does it take to learn how to negotiate Finale?

I'm sure I'm able to do it. In a past life, I was software "engineer," but I left because although I was more than competent, I hated it. Really. So, I want to make music, not waste my time figuring out overly complex software.

So, how many hours does one have to invest? All I want to do is to notate a simple chant that I've harmonized. Will learning to notate it take longer than actually composing the piece in the first place? I would be happy sticking with pen and paper, but now it seems that everyone simply expects something professional-looking. Argh.

Frankly, you might do better with Sibelius.

Some people compose with paper and pencil, then hire someone to engrave it into Finale or other notation software. That is still a viable option. A composer does not have to be a copyist/engraver.

Zuill

I want to make music, not learn to play an instrument...

If you want anyone to take your music seriously, you need to present it in a professional fashion. So, either you need to learn the software, or, as Zuill says, hire someone else to do it.

How long will it take? That depends on how many of the advanced features you need. You can learn the basics over a weekend. The rest of it? It’s up to you.

If you like, send me a private message. Use the PM icon under my picture. I’ll be happy to talk you through some of the basic questions.

I want to be an RN, but I don't want to go to school for it. (I'd also be making a helluva lot more money!)

As Zuill said, pencil and paper. Simple. I just finished composing a choral anthem yesterday. Started it on Tuesday using Finale, finished it yesterday using pencil and paper, then I transcribed it into Finale and put in all the finishing touches. If you don't want to spend that kind of money there's always free open source music software.

Finale and -let's be frank- all other music notation software is primarily targeted at copyists, not at composers. In fact, this software is most likely going to be hell for most composers. Finale is going to play havoc on anyone trying to work from scratch from within Finale, because Finale isn't going to coop well with some serious editing — and how does one compose without editing? Writing down notes without editing is notating, not composing. Even MakeMusic suggests that composers should do their work with pencil and paper and put the music into Finale (a copyist's job) afterwards.

I'm speaking from well over twenty years of experience with composing from within Finale, as well as from conversations with Coda/MakeMusic, in which they time and again admit that Finale documents will run into problems when edited extensively.

Needless to say that I'm already well over twenty years baffled why first Coda and later MakeMusic keep on advertising Finale as a tool for composers. Do they even *know* the difference between the two professions?

Of course, not every composer will be as nitpicking on every note, revisit and review every line over and over again, so your mileage may vary. But please do realise that when your compositorial workflow involves many edits, you should consider working with pencil and paper and not enter a single note into any music notation software until the score is (at least basically) finished.

The obvious benefits of a digital score will always pay out, though.

There are likely more composers than copyists, and few with the resources to pay for a copyist, so I don't find their marketing baffling.

I compose with a mix of Finale and pencil/paper, I certainly don't wait until I'm "basically finished composing" a piece before starting to work in Finale.

That said, Finale is quite easy to use for certain things, but for other things can be a bit more arcane.
As was correctly stated, Finale is primarily an engraving software (with pretty good playback functionality, compared to others).

If you want to compose in a software package only, then you might be better off learning how to use a DAW like Reaper or any of a dozen others. In a DAW there's no need to worry about the engraving while composing.

Something like Finale has to know what you've written and it has to be logical (if you want playback) for Finale to understand what you've written.
If you're wanting to immediately hop in a write non-measured music, with no barlines, then Finale is not the way to go.

Thanks all!

Well, I guess I was just in a very bad mood last week. I gave it a rest and came back to it today with a fresh perspective and have already succeeded in at least setting up my staves. It only took 10 minutes. I think I can handle this! I might not get it done by our next rehearsal, but I think yes for the one after that.

Melisande

I did it! Yay! I notated my first piece in Finale. It only wound up taking 1 and 1/2 hours. There are still a couple of details I need to work out, but I can just pen them in for now and figure it out later. Maybe I will spring for the software after all!

Good job! As we like to say around here, the first ten years are the hardest.

I used to be fast with pen and paper. Of course, I couldn't hit a button and let others hear what I did.

After I lost the use of my left arm, I found that I was about as fast in Finale as with a pencil in my right hand. I have always been easier to read in a notation app.

Then comes editing, arranging, rewrites, transposition etc. All that left hand speed is dwarfed by the speed and ease of modification and layout. Now that I'm right handed... Need I continue?

Since I work in the medical field and compose when time permits, and because I found the Finale manual offering more "what" than "how," I made notes of what I learned when running into problems (lots of them). My quick step guide saved me the headache of having to relearn and troubleshoot down the road. Thanks mostly to the altruistic folks at this forum, I compiled a rather lengthy quick step guide that should help you. Just search for Finale101 online. I've more than doubled the topics since the last post and need to update the blog; but I think the simple steps already posted will make using Finale much easier to use.

Djard wrote:Since I work in the medical field and compose when time permits, and because I found the Finale manual offering more "what" than "how," I made notes of what I learned when running into problems (lots of them). My quick step guide saved me the headache of having to relearn and troubleshoot down the road. Thanks mostly to the altruistic folks at this forum, I compiled a rather lengthy quick step guide that should help you. Just search for Finale101 online. I've more than doubled the topics since the last post and need to update the blog; but I think the simple steps already posted will make using Finale much easier to use.

Thanks! I'll have a look.

Unfortunately, there's no searchable .pdf manual (grrrrrr....). The help files are online, however. This is still easier than trying to navigate something this comprehensive in paper. I know because I ordered the paper manual once (2004 maybe). I got a bound ream of paper printed 4-up to the page—yes, 500 sheets of paper printed 3 pages per side.

When trying to figure out something I've not done in awhile, I put the Help site up on a second monitor. A tablet will work, too. Make certain that you have the correct platform displaying, Mac or Win as some functions are not the same such as printing.

One of the better kept secrets is that there are downloadable .html manuals for Mac and Win as well as printable Quick Reference .pdf cards. Find them here:

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ersion-25-

I suppose it would be too much to have links to the Quick Start videos at the above link. They can be found here:
https://www.finalemusic.com/support/lea ... rt-videos/

The video tutorials to which you direct us are surprisingly clear, evidently made by someone other than whoever wrore the nebulous manual. Thanks.

More than half of the 300+ page user guide I wrote focuses on troublshooting and workarounds to Finale bugs. If I were GM at MakeMusic, I would fire all in the marketing department, publish a manual solely on bug fixes and not add any new features, until the old ones proved stable. Oh, and just for a hoot, I would make the pause icon work in the playback menu as well as fix other issues, dating back to the first version. Ah, but the there would be little need for this indispensable forum.

If I were GM at MakeMusic,...

I think you have to move to Colorado.

Would I be here if I wasn't profoundly frustrated? Nope. You get here by Googling "Finale too complicated." I've been using Finale since the 1990s and it has gotten MORE, not less, difficult to use. The stakeholders will go on and on about how great and powerful it is, but they are just blowing smoke in your face. What am I talking about? It's almost impossible to change tempi for playback. It's very hard to mute or solo playback parts. There is no simple way to add measure numbers. Everything you want to do takes three or more steps. It should all be intuitive and simple. Instead, the software has become bloated and joyless. Oh yeah, and then there's the asking money for upgrades every year. Large amounts of money, year after year... For what, to frustrate myself further? C'mon folks, no more gaslighting. After this current project I'm working on I am changing to YOU KNOW WHAT.

Feel better, now?

If you think Finale is too complex for the simple things you listed, why don’t you tell us how you would handle your complaints? Describe the intuitive, simple steps you would like to take to put in measure numbers, how you want to change tempi, and how you want to mute or solo parts.

Let’s see how what you want compares to how you have to do it.

I've upgraded about every 6 or 7 years.

I feel your frustration,. Understandably, you a letting off steam.

Over the years, I compiled about 500 pages of notes that consist of clear steps for tasks that I found obscure in the manual, simple steps to which I could refer in the future, thanks mainly to the kind folks at this forum, without which I could not have finished even one project. I will be happy to share my fairly comprehensive guide with you or anyone interested.

At the Sibelius forum, you will find that composers post as many--if not more--issues. So as long as marketing people press engineers to create new features, instead of finish working on older ones, no notation software will ever be stable, except maybe if Adobe entered the scene. But then Adobe would only rent its program to you... and at a high fee.

Let me know if you would like a copy of my illustrated Finale step guide.

jeff1326 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:53 pm

I've been using Finale since the 1990s and it has gotten MORE, not less, difficult to use.

Finale is indeed complicated and it took me a very long time to become proficient, but I think they have streamlined it quite a bit over the years. The switch from the Mass Edit tool to the Selection tool was a big improvement, as were putting expressions into categories and linked parts. If you look at some of the very old parts of Finale, like Smart Find and Paint, Copy and Replace in the Note Mover tool, and the Ossia tool, they're pretty weird and funky in a way that the newer things aren't.

Adding measure numbers seems simple to me. How would you envision it working that you would find simpler?

jeff, I think you should try a Dorico 30-day free trial and report back to us.

miker wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:42 pm

If you want anyone to take your music seriously, you need to present it in a professional fashion.

Is a composition 'professional' when it looks neat? Then all of the great masters of yesteryear must be the worst composers to ever walk the face of this planet. The fact that the score is set in a printed/printable way doesn't make the music any better, only the legibility.

Many (all?) publishing houses demand a typeset score from composers, simply because it saves them a lot of money in production. No other reason.

Jay Emmes wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:35 am

miker wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:42 pm

If you want anyone to take your music seriously, you need to present it in a professional fashion.

Is a composition 'professional' when it looks neat? Then all of the great masters of yesteryear must be the worst composers to ever walk the face of this planet. The fact that the score is set in a printed/printable way doesn't make the music any better, only the legibility.

Many (all?) publishing houses demand a typeset score from composers, simply because it saves them a lot of money in production. No other reason.

I think Mike may have meant somebody needs to present it in a professional fashion. For established composers, if they are lucky, that may mean the publisher rather than the composer themselves. If you have no publisher willing to do this for you, then indeed you do need to do it yourself or pay a suitably qualified engraver/copyist to do it for you.