Notation question - 'a2' divisi in brass for flex-orchestra?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Andrew Harrison
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:34 pm
- Finale Version: F27.3.0.160, F26+25
- Operating System: Mac
G'day Finale people,
I'm trying to determine how to correctly indicate a divisi brass part in a flex-orchestra piece I have written.
I have written a brass part (Brass 1) for Bb trumpets/cornets, and, in theory, it can be played by as many players as there are in the orchestra. Occasionally, it breaks out into two different 'voices' - ie a high and low part, written on the same stave - where you would normally indicate 'a2' to show that two players are required. However, in this situation, I would like the part to be played by as many players as there are in the orchestra. (Ie, if 4 players are in the rehearsal, then 2 can play on each voice. Or even 1 on the top, and 3 on the bottom - this would all be determined by the conductor).
Does anyone know what is the correct way to indicate this? I have a feeling that 'a2' might mean 2 players only, regardless of how many are in the rehearsal section? Would 'div' be an option? (I seem to recall that 'div' is more for strings?
Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers
Andrew H
I'm trying to determine how to correctly indicate a divisi brass part in a flex-orchestra piece I have written.
I have written a brass part (Brass 1) for Bb trumpets/cornets, and, in theory, it can be played by as many players as there are in the orchestra. Occasionally, it breaks out into two different 'voices' - ie a high and low part, written on the same stave - where you would normally indicate 'a2' to show that two players are required. However, in this situation, I would like the part to be played by as many players as there are in the orchestra. (Ie, if 4 players are in the rehearsal, then 2 can play on each voice. Or even 1 on the top, and 3 on the bottom - this would all be determined by the conductor).
Does anyone know what is the correct way to indicate this? I have a feeling that 'a2' might mean 2 players only, regardless of how many are in the rehearsal section? Would 'div' be an option? (I seem to recall that 'div' is more for strings?
Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers
Andrew H
Andrew Harrison
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6678
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Indeed the italian term ‘divìsi’ is an option - and not only for strings.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:28 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Hi Andrew
As a brass player 'div' is fine to get what you want. I know you've written on 1 stave but maybe consider using 2 parts but mark them up as Trumpet part 1 and Trumpet part 2 (as opposed to Trumpet 1 and 2) then the conductor could assign the parts as to how many players they would like on each part.
As a brass player 'div' is fine to get what you want. I know you've written on 1 stave but maybe consider using 2 parts but mark them up as Trumpet part 1 and Trumpet part 2 (as opposed to Trumpet 1 and 2) then the conductor could assign the parts as to how many players they would like on each part.
- Andrew Harrison
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:34 pm
- Finale Version: F27.3.0.160, F26+25
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks Peter and cunardferguson for the replies.
Based on what you have both said, I think I'll go for 'divisi' (or div.) when I require the trumpets to divide up. I will also make a comment in the Performance Notes about how the parts are to be separated out. I imagine I would need to use 'tutti' once the brass parts all come together on the same note, after 'divisi'?
(And I assume I wouldn't need an initial indication of 'tutti' on the trumpet's first combined entry of the piece, as this should be clear that all players start together? Sounds like overkill, I know, but with school/community ensembles, sometimes it's good to spell things out...?)
Cunard, to your point about creating two separate parts - I know what you mean, and appreciate the suggestion. On this occasion, I'm going to try and avoid this, as I'm hoping to keep the number of different parts to a minimum. (The other sections of the orchestra are also written as Winds 1, Winds 2 etc, with the option of having different wind instruments that fit the range playing together). So I'm trying to get the 'organisation process' correct, so I can replicate it again with other pieces.
It's actually quite a challenge to be clear and concise with one's musical intentions on the score! So appreciate the feedback.
Regards,
Andrew H
Based on what you have both said, I think I'll go for 'divisi' (or div.) when I require the trumpets to divide up. I will also make a comment in the Performance Notes about how the parts are to be separated out. I imagine I would need to use 'tutti' once the brass parts all come together on the same note, after 'divisi'?
(And I assume I wouldn't need an initial indication of 'tutti' on the trumpet's first combined entry of the piece, as this should be clear that all players start together? Sounds like overkill, I know, but with school/community ensembles, sometimes it's good to spell things out...?)
Cunard, to your point about creating two separate parts - I know what you mean, and appreciate the suggestion. On this occasion, I'm going to try and avoid this, as I'm hoping to keep the number of different parts to a minimum. (The other sections of the orchestra are also written as Winds 1, Winds 2 etc, with the option of having different wind instruments that fit the range playing together). So I'm trying to get the 'organisation process' correct, so I can replicate it again with other pieces.
It's actually quite a challenge to be clear and concise with one's musical intentions on the score! So appreciate the feedback.
Regards,
Andrew H
Andrew Harrison
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6678
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Most musicians do not speak italian; they will understand ‘Tutti’ - even if it is not entirely correct.Andrew Harrison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:39 pm… I imagine I would need to use 'tutti' once the brass parts all come together on the same note, after 'divisi'? …
To notate correctly:
1) Use ‘Tutti’ to cancel ‘Solo’.
‘Tutti’ means ‘All’.
2) Use ‘unìti’ to cancel ‘divìsi’.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:28 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
The other option is ‘unis’ as opposed to tutti
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1458
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
No mater how you notate it I would do that. I always go for clarity in what I want over what the supposedly correct way to notate it is.I will also make a comment in the Performance Notes about how the parts are to be separated out.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- Andrew Harrison
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:34 pm
- Finale Version: F27.3.0.160, F26+25
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks Peter and Motet and ebriggs,
All good feedback and suggestions.
Cheers
Andrew
All good feedback and suggestions.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Harrison
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
Composer/pianist
www.andrewharrison.com.au
Instagram: instagram.com/aharrisonmusic/
MacBook Air running 12.6.5, Finale 27.3.0.160, plus Finale 26 & 25
- engelbach
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:11 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27
- Operating System: Mac
Andrew,
"a2" means that you have just one part that is to played by two instruments in unison.
Similarly, a3, a4, etc.
When you have two instruments and two parts on one stave, it's understood that you want the instruments to divide up the parts. No other indication is needed. Normally, the first instrument will play the top part and the second the lower part. If you want to specify the opposite, write "2." above the staff and "1." below it.
In your case, I agree that "divisi" is what you want.
"a2" means that you have just one part that is to played by two instruments in unison.
Similarly, a3, a4, etc.
When you have two instruments and two parts on one stave, it's understood that you want the instruments to divide up the parts. No other indication is needed. Normally, the first instrument will play the top part and the second the lower part. If you want to specify the opposite, write "2." above the staff and "1." below it.
In your case, I agree that "divisi" is what you want.
Jerry Engelbach
iMac OSX Catalina, Finale 27, Note Performer 4, Perfect Layout
www.engelbachmusic.com
iMac OSX Catalina, Finale 27, Note Performer 4, Perfect Layout
www.engelbachmusic.com
Thanks for informationengelbach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:49 pmAndrew,
"a2" means that you have just one part that is to played by two instruments in unison.
Similarly, a3, a4, etc.
When you have two instruments and two parts on one stave, it's understood that you want the instruments to divide up the parts. No other indication is needed. Normally, the first instrument will play the top part and the second the lower part. If you want to specify the opposite, write "2." above the staff and "1." below it. activities in fethiye
In your case, I agree that "divisi" is what you want.
Last edited by fethiye on Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac