dynamics not observed in HP

[Florio60]

This is a problem that I've been experiencing for years now, but cannot resolve. It regards dynamic expressions and Human Playback.

Much of the music I edit is in binary form, with an echo effect (or a sudden drop in dynamics to piano) at the end of a section. When the section is then repeated, the dynamic should be forte once again and yet Human Playback will rarely observe this.

I've tried just about everything, from adding hidden dynamic expressions at the beginning of sections and de-selecting 'Final Bars' in the settings for customising HP (this does occasionally work!). It almost seems as if Finale has problems going immediately and smoothly from one dynamic to a different (and opposite) one.

Has anyone else experienced this, and is there a solution to it? It must have something to do with HP settings, but which ones?

Florio

Finale 2012c
Windows 7 Home Premium

[Peter Thomsen]

1) Does the problem happen in all documents - or only in specific documents?

2) Are the dynamics defined for playback?

3) Do the documents play back correctly if you toggle Human Playback off?

4) It might help if we could see an actual Finale 2012 document.
I suggest that you attach a (small) Finale document that shows the problem.
Before you can attach a .mus document in this forum, you must compress it, e. g. as a .zip file.
And the file size must not be more than max. 100 KB.

[Florio60]

It happens in various documents, Peter, but these are similar in terms of number of instruments and scoring.

The dynamics I'm referring to would appear to be defined for playback (key velocity).

There is very little difference if I turn HP off (apart from trills and ornaments non longer being performed).

I'm not really sure how I can send a document to illustrate the problem that does not exceed 100KB!!

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

…There is very little difference if I turn HP off (apart from trills and ornaments non longer being performed)…

Since the problem is still there, when HP is off, I suspect that the problem is not a HP problem, but rather a problem with expression playback definition.
But we really need to see an actual document.

…I'm not sure how I can send a document to illustrate the problem that does not exceed 100KB!!…

To reduce the file size you can -
* Clear notes and rests (use Edit menu > Clear Selected Items…). We only need to see the emppty measures, with the dynamics in them.
* Delete un-used items from all “Selection” dialog boxes, like e. g. “Articulation Selection” and “Expression Selection” and “Shape Selection”.

If everything else fails, create a new document from a “Document Without Libraries” (= a totally blank, empty document).

[Florio60]

Okay, Peter, I have managed to prepare a document, leaving just dynamics, bar numbers, tempi, and repeat signs.

The only dynamics actually included in the original music are the p symbols; I inserted the f symbols so as to be sure that upon repeat, the first part of the relevant section would be louder.

The section that interests me the most is between bars 130-165 (in scroll view), but I think the same thing probably happens in the other repeated sections as well (73-86, 87-105, 166-206, 231-265) if there is an echo effect intended.

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Florio,

I am unable to duplicate your problem - the document you attached, plays back with dynamics all right for me.

Try the attached document where I have inserted playback notes in the regions m. 73-86 and m. 130-165.

Does my document with dynamics play back correctly for you?

If the dynamics do not play back for you, then I suspect that the issue is not document specific, but rather program specific, or perhaps hardware specific.

Do you only experience the problem with Finale - and nowhere else?

[Florio60]

Thank you for taking the time to prepare your document.

Bars 73-87 play as they should, with the correct dynamics being observed. For bars 130-165, however, I could only hear piano throughout, with no changes at all.

I just use Finale as music notation software, but I am not aware of volume problems with any other programmes or media devices.

This is very puzzling, but the fact that only certain bars are involved would seem to suggest that it is indeed a setting of some sort (HP?) that is the cause of the problem. What do you think?


Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

…This is very puzzling, but the fact that only certain bars are involved would seem to suggest that it is indeed a setting of some sort (HP?) that is the cause of the problem. What do you think?…

The settings for Human Playback are document specific (= saved in the document).

Since the same document plays back correctly for me, but not for you, I sincerely doubt that the culprit is document specific.

What could be the differences between my system and your system?
Perhaps hardware?

I suggest that you contact the folks in MakeMusic’s Tech Support.
They know a lot about hardware specific issues.

[Florio60]

I've taken your advice and have written to MakeMusic.

Since doing that, however, I've noticed another strange thing regarding bars 130-165, and I think it could be related to the dynamics issue. When I use scroll view, with the option of beginning playback from the leftmost measure, that section will play at the correct speed only if I begin from the first bar (130). If I commence playback from any bar before 154, playback is at half speed until the section is repeated.

I've checked the rest of the document, and problems with dynamics and playback speed exist only in that section, so I don't think this is a hardware problem. I've cleared all MIDI data in an attempt to start afresh with dynamics, but the problems still exist. It's as if there were some hidden setting there somewhere!

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

…I've cleared all MIDI data in an attempt to start afresh with dynamics, but the problems still exist…

In that case I would suspect that the culprit is an expression with playback effect.

I suppose that you used
Edit menu > Clear Selected Items…
to clear all MIDI data, right?

You could also use “Clear Selected Items…” to clear all expressions from the problematic region.

[Florio60]

I've again cleared all dynamics, MIDI data, repeat signs and expressions, reintroducing them one at a time. Everything works well until I put the final p dynamic in a few bars before the backwards repeat sign. It plays perfectly, but the piano dynamic then continues when the section is repeated - even if I place a forte dynamic in the first bar.

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Let us see what the Tech Support folks can say about your document.

[Florio60]

Hello Peter.

I've still not heard back from Tech Suppoort at MakeMusic, but I have finally worked out what the problem was/is and so know how to solve it. I'll tell you about it just in case someone else ever experiences the same difficulty; I'd also like to ask you how to achieve the effect I was after by using a different procedure.

Basically it is all linked to measures and measure number regions. When I have to edit a composition, if it has several movements I prepare a single file for publication; it is easy to separate the individual movements using page or system breaks. I then make a copy of the file for playback and/or recording, and to separate the movements in the .wav file I introduce one or more blank measure stacks. This obviously affects the measure number regions if these have been defined, and somehow causes initial dynamics not be observed.

Would there be another way of 'inserting silence' between movements for playback purposes? Or do you think I would have to use audio editing software?

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Just a wild guess (based on a well known bug):

Go to
Preferences - View
and take a look at the pane “Measure Numbers”.

Since you are using multiple measure number regions, I suspect that you have selected the radio button “Display Defined Measure Numbers”, right?

(NB: This setting is a program setting that affects the measure number display in the program’s dialog boxes - the setting does not affect the layout)

When working with playback, try selecting “Display Actual Measure Numbers” instead, and see whether “Display Actual Measure Numbers” fixes the problem.

[Florio60]

Actually, “Display Actual Measure Numbers” was already selected.

It was the insertion of those extra measure stacks that created the problem. I removed the measure number regions since these are not necessary for a file that is used only for playback.

I am now looking for a way to separate the individual movements other than that of inserting whole blank measure stacks to creats a short silence. Maybe I could change the time signatures in the final bars of each movement (e.g. 8/4, 7/8) giving the final notes their correct note values and using rests to complete the bars).

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

…I am now looking for a way to separate the individual movements other than that of inserting whole blank measure stacks to creats a short silence. Maybe I could change the time signatures in the final bars of each movement (e.g. 8/4, 7/8) giving the final notes their correct note values and using rests to complete the bars)…

That should definitely work, and give you the desired audio file.