polyrhytmic notation

[kvint3]

Hello everybody

I would like to notate a polyrhythmic sections in Finale 2011, but there are major problems with that regarding the measure behavior - measures are still aligned together even if the e.g. piano is notated in 5/4 and marimba 4/4. I know there are ways how to "cheat" and make it look like properly. Is there any easy way to do it?

I was thinking about lenghtening the piano measures, but when it's together in a system with marimba, FInale won't let me do it. Is there any way how to make the measures independent?

Thank you and sorry for me english

[Peter Thomsen]

Welcome to the forum!

If I understand you correctly, the quarter note tempo is the same tempo in piano and marimba, so that the barlines should be staggered, right?

One way to do so:

- Set the "real" time signature to 20/4, but make it display as 5/4.

- In the Staff Attributes for the Marimba staff, in the pane Independent Elements, select "Time Signature".

- Now you can make the Marimba staff's 20/4 time display as 4/4 time.

- Add false barlines with the Expression Tool.

See the attached Finale 2011 document.
Be careful with all note accidentals, since Finale does not know that the expressions are (fake) barlines.

[kvint3]

thank you very much.
this seems to be an awfull amount of work when my piece is actually finished...the polyrhytmic sections are not in the whole piece, can't I just independently move/stretch measures of piano? in my piece, there are sections where marimba is in 4/4 and piano 5/4 and piano therefore ends before the marimba part in the score (because the measures are aligned together with marimba) and then there are empty measures in piano, where marimba still plays. it would be enough to stretch the piano measures. is anything like this possible?

[Peter Thomsen]

No, that is not possible.

You can only get staggered barlines via some sort of workaround.
There are several solutions, but they are all time consuming, sorry.

The attached document shows another workaround, namely overlapping systems.
You can always get a beautiful layout via overlapping systems, but it takes time.
Overlapping systems is a most advanced layout solution - definitely not for Finale beginners.

OverlappingSystems.mus.zip

(12.52 KiB) Downloaded 174 times

The solution I sketched in my first post - a "real" time signature of 20/4 - is probably the easy solution.
By The Way:
If you have "too many small note-values" to, comfortably squeeze music for twenty 4trs into one system, use the plug-in Split Measure to split the 20/4 measure across two systems (as two "half-measures" of 10/4).

[Tyranny1]

OK, I know its been years since this thread died, but just in case anyone is out there, in the same shoes I was in yesterday. I have found the perfect work around!

But first, there are three types of polyrhythms...

1. Same tempo/similar meter (4/4 with 12/8 etc) with aligning bar lines... Finale does this.
2. Assumed different tempo/any two meters with aligning bar lines... Finale does this.
3. Same tempo/different meters with staggered bar lines, and thus aligning beats. Finale does not do this!, BUT...

Here's the trick.

For my example I needed one staff in 3/4 and the other in 4/4 with staggered bar lines and aligning by beats.

1. Enter your parts in both staffs in 1/4, 1/8... or simply in 1 beat measures (eighth notes will not beam across bar lines, sorry)
2. Hide your time signatures and hide bar lines
3. Then change the time signatures (while still hidden) as desired (the notes shouldn't move!).
4. Un-hide time signatures, revealing desired time signature.
5. At 22pt font size use the text tool and enter |'s in place of bar lines.

I know its not perfect, but you'd never know when looking at it and the music will align by beats