no space for accidentals in two layers

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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Sun May 25, 2014 4:48 pm

when i write in two layers finale does not create enough space for accidentals in both layers... how can i fix this visual problem?
Below is the attachment...
Thank You!!!!
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Ekran Resmi 2014-05-25 19.43.54.png
Ekran Resmi 2014-05-25 19.43.54.png (88.36 KiB) Viewed 6031 times
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun May 25, 2014 4:58 pm

We need a little more info:

What version of Finale are you using? - 2014? - 2012? - 2011? - 2010?
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Sun May 25, 2014 5:02 pm

I use 2014a in iMac...
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miker
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Post by miker » Sun May 25, 2014 5:23 pm

Do you have Automatic Update Layout turned on? Do you have Avoid Collision of Accidentals turned on? Have you tried Apply Music Spacing and Update Layout (manually?)

Is this in all documents, or just this one?
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Sun May 25, 2014 6:57 pm

I have this problem in all my files...
Avoid Collision of Notes and accidentals are turned on.
And i have tried Apply music spacing and update layout manually....No change...
I can't find Automatic Update Layout option...
Finale 25.5.0.259 & Logic Pro X Ver. 10.0.7 with 27'iMacRetina5K (Late2014) (MacOSX10.13.6) - Yamaha P120 & Motu UltraLitemk3

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun May 25, 2014 6:58 pm

tolga_tavis,

I am not sure what layout you need..

Take a look at the attached Finale 2014 document*).
Ekran Resmi.zip
(15.44 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
Is this the layout you need?

*) To attach the document here in the forum I changed the file name extension from .musx to .zip.
Do not worry.
After you have downloaded my document, just change the file name extension back to .musx, and Finale 2014 can open the document without problems.
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Sun May 25, 2014 7:01 pm

the problem occurs when i start using second (or third or fourth) layer...
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Sun May 25, 2014 7:05 pm

Yes this seems ok for me... How could you do it? Manually?

Peter Thomsen wrote:tolga_tavis,

I am not sure what layout you need..

Take a look at the attached Finale 2014 document*).
Ekran Resmi.zip
Is this the layout you need?

*) To attach the document here in the forum I changed the file name extension from .musx to .zip.
Do not worry.
After you have downloaded my document, just change the file name extension back to .musx, and Finale 2014 can open the document without problems.
Finale 25.5.0.259 & Logic Pro X Ver. 10.0.7 with 27'iMacRetina5K (Late2014) (MacOSX10.13.6) - Yamaha P120 & Motu UltraLitemk3

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun May 25, 2014 10:42 pm

tolga_tavis wrote:Yes this seems ok for me... How could you do it? Manually?…
Yes, manually:

The trick is to hide the "real" Layer 2 accidental, and add the accidental in Layer 1, since Finale correctly spaces accidentals and notes that are in the same layer.
You only have to do so in the top staff, since the new spacing will also affect the bottom staff.

In measure 2 (with the G♭) I forced the ♭ on the D♭ to show, and moved the ♭ up by 9 Points (1 scale step = 3 Points).

In measure 3 (with the B♭♭) I added (between the two F♭s) a D♭♭, replaced its notehead character with a blank character, and moved the ♭♭ down by 6 Points.
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Spacing.jpg
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Mon May 26, 2014 10:43 am

Hmm... Not to practical, but it seems this is the only way... But it effects the playback doesn't it?...
And how do you change the places of the flats? you mentioned "points" but i didn't get it.
Peter Thomsen wrote:
tolga_tavis wrote:Yes this seems ok for me... How could you do it? Manually?…
Yes, manually:

The trick is to hide the "real" Layer 2 accidental, and add the accidental in Layer 1, since Finale correctly spaces accidentals and notes that are in the same layer.
You only have to do so in the top staff, since the new spacing will also affect the bottom staff.

In measure 2 (with the G♭) I forced the ♭ on the D♭ to show, and moved the ♭ up by 9 Points (1 scale step = 3 Points).

In measure 3 (with the B♭♭) I added (between the two F♭s) a D♭♭, replaced its notehead character with a blank character, and moved the ♭♭ down by 6 Points.
Finale 25.5.0.259 & Logic Pro X Ver. 10.0.7 with 27'iMacRetina5K (Late2014) (MacOSX10.13.6) - Yamaha P120 & Motu UltraLitemk3

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon May 26, 2014 12:09 pm

tolga_tavis wrote:…But it effects the playback doesn't it?…
In the document I attached, you can not hear the effect in playback because I de-selected playback for the “layout note”.
This was done in the very technical Speedy Entry Tool dialog box Edit Frame.


tolga_tavis wrote:…And how do you change the places of the flats? you mentioned "points" but i didn't get it…
Special Tools Tool.
Click the sub-tool Accidental Mover Tool.
Click inside the staff/measure to make handles appear on the noteheads.
Drag-select the handle on the accidental you want to move, and hit the Return key.
Enable “Allow Vertical Positioning”.
To move the accidental down by 6 Points (= 2 scale steps), enter -6pt in the field “Vertical Positioning”.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
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tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Mon May 26, 2014 4:51 pm

This was done in the very technical Speedy Entry Tool dialog box Edit Frame.
Wow... Edit Frame is difficult to deal with... :)

Anyway i think i understand everything correctly. Thank you for your patience and concern...
Finale 25.5.0.259 & Logic Pro X Ver. 10.0.7 with 27'iMacRetina5K (Late2014) (MacOSX10.13.6) - Yamaha P120 & Motu UltraLitemk3

tolga_tavis
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Post by tolga_tavis » Mon May 26, 2014 5:17 pm

Definitely Finale is not capable enough for placing accidentals in such complex situations. A musician should not spend too much time to fix it.
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