Expressions Missing after Finale 2014 b upgrade

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squeezindiva
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:17 pm
Finale Version: 2014b
Operating System: Windows

Post by squeezindiva » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:34 pm

Hi All,

I have been using Finale for over ten years. This is the first time I have had a serious problem. I am hoping someone here will have insight.

Just upgraded to 2014 b. When I went to open my files all of the expressions were gone. The files indicate where they were. In other words a small square indicating where they were exists and I can click on it to go to the Expression Tool but none of the information is there. For example, rehearsal marks -- in the Expression selection area the spaces for the ones I created are there but the spaces themselves are empty.

I quit and rebooted my Mac. Still the same when I reopened.

I have opened other files to see if the problem was more than just one file. And I created a new file. All have same missing expressions.

The thought of having to go back and reenter every expression I have ever added to all my files makes me queasy.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Mags
the Mad Maggies


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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:52 am

Welcome to the forum!

Since you experience the same issue in all documents, I suspect that the culprit is a font issue.

In other words:
I suspect that your documents are all right, and that the documents will display correctly, when the font issue has been solved.

As a test you can create a new document, and try to create a new expression.
Another test: Create a new user account, and see whether the same problem shows up there.

Ideas:

1) Launch FontBook, and let it check the music fonts (e. g. fonts that are not properly installed, duplicate fonts, &c.)

2) Clear the font cache.


By The Way:
It might be useful to know the steps you have already taken, so that we can rule out things.
Have you e. g. removed Finale’s Preferences file?
Removing the Preferences may not solve this particular problem, but it could not hurt to try it.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

squeezindiva
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:17 pm
Finale Version: 2014b
Operating System: Windows

Post by squeezindiva » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:05 pm

Thank you, Peter Thomsen!

I opened FontBook and checked for duplicate fonts. There were a few but none that Finale uses.

I ran Cocktail -- a Mac maintenance app -- and cleared the font cache.

I opened my test .mus file and still no expressions/fonts showing up in the expressions.

Under Document: DataCheck: Font Utilities: Basic I found an option to "Check Document Against System Fonts" so I tried that.

And I cleared the preference file.

I reopened my test file and still no good :-(

I created a new miscellaneous expression called "testing" and assigned it and it appeared on the file. !?

Hmmm ... what happened to all the others? If I click on, for example, the built-in "expressive text" ones I can see what they are supposed to be -- dolce, agitato etc. -- but they do not show up in the window or on the file. They are using the same font as the "testing" one I created.

Under Document: DataCheck: Font Utilities: Advanced there is an option to "convert text to Macintosh. I am not sure whether I should do that.

Perhaps I should reinstall 2014 b? Or?

squeezindiva
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:17 pm
Finale Version: 2014b
Operating System: Windows

Post by squeezindiva » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:56 pm

Called Make Music support today.

The tech agreed my problem was rather odd and thought it was most likely a font issue and suggested creating a new Mac user.

Instead of creating a new Mac user (which seemed a needlessly complicated move for only one app's problems) I opted for reinstalling Finale 2014a. The tech sent me a special link for that. I couldn't find a link for that on the website.

I installed and got the same missing expressions. Rats!!

Sooooooo ...

I quit everything. Ran Cocktail to repair disk permissions. Went to my most recent Back Up on an external drive and retrieved the MyHardDrive: Library: Fonts folder.

I pulled all the fonts out of the existing problematic Fonts folder and tucked them away elsewhere to be discarded if all went as I hoped.

I then placed all the fonts from my Back Up version in the Fonts folder, opened a file in Finale 2014a and, voilá, I am back in business.

I am now reluctant to upgrade to 2014b and will hold off on that for awhile. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. :-)

Hope this helps anyone experiencing the same problem.

squeezindiva
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:17 pm
Finale Version: 2014b
Operating System: Windows

Post by squeezindiva » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:00 pm

And there I thought I was out of the woods ...

Just opened my Finale 2014a to begin work again on a project and ... lo and behold ... the fonts are missing again!

I have run Cocktail for maintenance and cache clearing and checked FontBook for duplicate fonts.

Still no fonts.

I am at a loss

Periclys
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:41 pm
Finale Version: 2014b Mac
Operating System: Windows

Post by Periclys » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:45 pm

I have encountered the same problem. I just downloaded and installed Finale 2014, and there is no library available in the expression symbols. This is the first time I've installed Finale on this computer. Whenever I try changing fonts inside of the expressions designer, the program crashes. Any advice?

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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:34 pm

Periclys wrote:I have encountered the same problem. I just downloaded and installed Finale 2014, and there is no library available in the expression symbols. This is the first time I've installed Finale on this computer. Whenever I try changing fonts inside of the expressions designer, the program crashes. Any advice?
Welcome to the forum!

Please specify the steps you've already taken, so that we can rule out things.

Did you e. g. try the ideas mentioned earlier in this thread?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Bamboosteve
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:19 am
Finale Version: finale 2014
Operating System: Mac

Post by Bamboosteve » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:26 am

I also have many (not all) expressions missing. My document was created on a PC running Finale 2014 and is missing expressions on my mac. Also on this mac I installed 2014.5 then ditched it for being too weird. I can't find how to tell if I am using 2014a or b.

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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:49 am

Bamboosteve wrote:I also have many (not all) expressions missing. My document was created on a PC running Finale 2014 and is missing expressions on my mac. Also on this mac I installed 2014.5 then ditched it for being too weird. I can't find how to tell if I am using 2014a or b.
Welcome to the forum!

Please specify the steps you've already taken, so that we can rule out things.

Did you e. g. try the ideas mentioned earlier in this thread?

To find out whether you are using 2014a or 2014b, go to
Finale menu > About Finale 2014
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:22 pm

I am having a similar issue on a PC.

When I select Expression Tool and double click above the staff, the Expresssion Selection box appears, but it is blank.
Also, everything is gone under the Articulation Tool as well.

Otherwise, Finale seems to be running normally.

I am running 2014.5.6359 on a Windows 10 Home 64-bit PC.

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:34 pm

dbmurray wrote:I am having a similar issue on a PC.

When I select Expression Tool and double click above the staff, the Expresssion Selection box appears, but it is blank.
Also, everything is gone under the Articulation Tool as well.

Otherwise, Finale seems to be running normally.

I am running 2014.5.6359 on a Windows 10 Home 64-bit PC.
I have reinstalled Finale 2014.5, and the problem persists.

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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:34 am

I suppose that re-installing Finale is the only step you have taken to solve the issue right?
(since you do not mention any other steps).

The issue could be a font issue.

* Is the problem the same in all Finale documents - or only in some specific documents?
dbmurray wrote:…Otherwise, Finale seems to be running normally…
* I suppose that all clefs display correctly, and also all notes, right?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:02 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:I suppose that re-installing Finale is the only step you have taken to solve the issue right?
(since you do not mention any other steps).

The issue could be a font issue.

* Is the problem the same in all Finale documents - or only in some specific documents?
dbmurray wrote:…Otherwise, Finale seems to be running normally…
* I suppose that all clefs display correctly, and also all notes, right?
I've done some more troubleshooting. The issue is isolated to certain saved documents.

I can add expressions and articulations to a new default document or import a MIDI file, save it, shut down and relauch Finale, add more, save it again, etc. just as I'd expect.

I can also open some older saved documents and add expressions and articulations.

Others, however, show the blank box I described previously.

I have not yet been able to see any consistency from one problem document to the next that might give some clue as to why this is happening.

My workflow is usually like this.
1. I initially use Cakewalk SONAR to create a MIDI file synced to an audio file.
2, I export that to MIDI, type one. It's usually just a treble and a bass channel.
3. I import the MIDI file into Finale. At this point, I can add expressions and articulations.
4. Inside Finale, I correct anything that didn't translate from MIDI, add lyrics, create repeats, adjust the page layout, add slur marks, etc.

At some point in that process, I must be doing something that breaks the expression & articulation link to the font, but I'm not sure what that would be. About the only thing I do font related is with lyrics, making them bold and/or slightly larger; and I'll insert a text box here and there to add a title or instruction.

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:15 pm

This is what I see immediately after I import from MIDI:
Image3.jpg
normal
Image3.jpg (58.07 KiB) Viewed 12097 times
After the document has been edited to add lyrics, repeat sections, slurs, etc., and I try to add a few expressions and articulation marks, I get this:
Image4.jpg
Image4.jpg (50.26 KiB) Viewed 12097 times

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:40 pm

Since the “issue is isolated to certain saved documents”, I find it unlikely that the issue is a font issue.
If there were an issue with a font - e. g. with the Maestro font - then the issue would show in all documents that are using
the Maestro font.

Also, your screen shots show that clefs, key signatures, time signatures, noteheads, flags &c. display correctly
in the Finale document.
Clefs, accidentals, time signature digit characters, noteheads &c. are all characters in the music font.

Just to make things clear:
Expressions and articulations are saved with the document.
They are document specific, not program specific.
You can have different expressions and articulations in different documents.
A document can even have no expressions, and no articulations in it.
Try e. g. this:
File menu > New > Document Without Libraries.

I have never experienced that expressions and articulations disappear from a saved document, and I do not have
an explanation of how it could happen (except file corruption).

Do you have backup copies of the documents - so that you can restore the lost expressions and articulations?

Could you perhaps attach a (small) Finale sample document with the issue here, for the gurus to examine?

This forum does not accept attachments with the Finale file name extension.
Before you can attach a Finale document in this forum, you must compress it, e. g. as a .zip file.
And the file size must not be more than max. 100 KB.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:02 pm

Here is a test file that has the blank box for expressions.
expressionless.zip
(14.23 KiB) Downloaded 184 times
I'm just curious...if a document is initially created with no libraries, is their any way to link the expression library to it after the fact?

It seems like perhaps these documents I'm having the issues with got un-linked from the expression library somehow.

Thanks for looking into it.

dbmurray
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:13 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dbmurray » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:05 pm

Answered my own question...yes, I can use load library under File to get the library back. I just don't know what I could be doing that is causing it to un-link during the editing process.

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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:07 am

dbmurray,

The Finale document you attached, has exactly the same document settings (= staff-line thickness, barline thickness, stem thickness, &c. &c.) as a Document Without Libraries.
And your document contains no libraries at all:
No chord suffixes, no shapes, no custom Smart Shape Tool smart lines, no articulations, no expressions, &c.
What is even more strange, is the fact that your document contains no expression categories.

To me it seems like you imported the MIDI file into a Document Without Libraries.

But even a Document Without Libraries contains the six default expression categories (= Dynamics, Tempo Marks, Tempo Alterations, Expressive Text, Technique Text, Rehearsal Marks).
Your document contains no expression categories at all !
This is weird since the default expression categories are “hardwired”; you can not delete them.

I suggest that you contact the folks in Tech Support at MakeMusic - and send them your weird sample document.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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