Completely lost with inputting 7,6,5 tuplets cross-staff...

[notedgirl]

Hi everyone, I've recently taken on a job for an old professor I had in music school where I'm inputting scores into finale 2014. All has been going well until the very end of this particular piece. picture-- oi60.tinypic.com/20jr8zs.jpg
The last couple staves are literally driving me up a wall as they consist of 64th notes in groups of 3, presented in 6 tuplets or 5 or 7- which may start in the bass and end in the trebel.
I have no idea how to group these notes, how to apply the tuplets or how to get them to span between the bass / treble without falling short in one measure (prompting rests).

Of course my boss needs this asap and I'm as lost and one can be.
Please advise, I'll be forever grateful!

[miker]

We couldn't see your picture.

With cross staff notation, you put all of the notes in a single staff, and then apply the plug-in, or move them manually (my method, since I've never learned how to use the plug in. One of these days, I will, since it really is faster!)

[notedgirl]

[notedgirl]

I did see that- I didn't see how to override the 'time signature' - or how to even form the 7/6/5/10 tuplets (having the 3 64th notes grouped)

[miker]

I'd like to see a close up of one measure. I think it can be done without too much aggravation.

After I play with it, I'll try to tell you how!

[notedgirl]

I'd like to see a close up of one measure. I think it can be done without too much aggravation.

After I play with it, I'll try to tell you how!

You're a life saver.
Please see attached.


Actual URL for full image- imgur.com/9BHSVxS - wont let me post URLS!

[miker]

I did it! NOT a task for the lazy!

It's too complicated for me to write out instructions. If you want to give me a call, I'll try to walk you through it.

I've sent my phone number in a private message.

[notedgirl]

Ah! I'm happy to hear it can be done, not so happy that it sounds like it'll be a challenge/too hard to write out haha.

Wouldn't be able to call until 4pm EST- I really need to know how to do this so I'll likely be in touch.
Thanks so much

[Peter Thomsen]

notedgirl,

Take a look at the attached Finale 2014 document.

I think that it shows the music from your attached graphic.

CrossStaffTuplets.musx.zip

(16.32 KiB) Downloaded 211 times

Could you be more specific about what you already know - and do not know?
I suppose that you have already been using the Index function in the online manual?

Do you know …
- how to create a tuplet?
- how to edit a tuplet’s appearance?
- how to break a beam?
- how to flip a beam?
-how to create cross staff notes?

[miker]

Notedgirl,

4 EST is only 1, out here. So I'll be around if Peter's tips don't help you. (But I'm sure they will. He's a REAL pro! And he's in Denmark, so you probably don't want to call him!)

[notedgirl]

notedgirl,

Take a look at the attached Finale 2014 document.

I think that it shows the music from your attached graphic.

CrossStaffTuplets.musx.zip

Could you be more specific about what you already know - and do not know?
I suppose that you have already been using the Index function in the online manual?

Do you know …
- how to create a tuplet?
- how to edit a tuplet’s appearance?
- how to break a beam?
- how to flip a beam?
-how to create cross staff notes?

Wow thank you so much for answering.

-I know how to create a tuplet, although I'll admit I have been confused as far as what the proper _ eight notes replace _ eight notes, etc.
-I have not quite mastered how to edit the appearance
-I know how to break a beam
-I can flip a beam
-I am not able to figure out how to create a cross staff note that looks right. Even as I look at the amazing example you've attached i cant seem to replicate the tuplet so the bracket covers the three notes in treble clef

[notedgirl]

cross staff is clearly needed but i cant seem to figure it out

[Peter Thomsen]

…-I know how to create a tuplet, although I'll admit I have been confused as far as what the proper _ eight notes replace _ eight notes, etc…

In the graphic you attached, I can not see the entire score.
Therefore I just assumed that the tuplets were standard 64th tuplets where each tuplet has a total duration of one 16th (= four 64ths).
Examples:
7-tuplet: 7 {64ths} in the space of 4 {64ths}
6-tuplet: 6 {64ths} in the space of 4 {64ths}
5-tuplet: 5 {64ths} in the space of 4 {64ths}

This means that the two systems with 64th tuplets each are a 5/16 measure (containing five tuplets).
Each 5/16 measure has a dashed right barline.

…-I have not quite mastered how to edit the appearance…

What parts of the appearance are giving you problems?
Please be more specific.
You can break a beam, right?
You can flip a stem, right?

Also, take a look at your settings in the Document Options - and compare them with the settings in the document I posted.
More specifically, look at the settings in
Document Options - Beams
Document Options - Ties
Document Options - Tuplets

…-I am not able to figure out how to create a cross staff note that looks right. Even as I look at the amazing example you've attached i cant seem to replicate the tuplet so the bracket covers the three notes in treble clef

When you create a cross staff tuplet, enter all the tuplet’s notes in the same staff.
In my example I entered the first two tuplets in the lower staff (bass clef) - with two hidden 16th rests in the staff above the two tuplets.
I entered the next three tuplets in the upper staff (treble clef) - with three hidden 16th rests in the staff below the three tuplets.
I used the Note Mover Tool to move the last three bass clef staff notes up into the treble clef staff
(in the Note Mover menu, select Cross Staff).
I used the Tuplet Tool to edit the appearance of the tuplets (angle, hooks, vertical position).

[notedgirl]

wow yes this has been such help. I have been able to do just about everything you've said, up until I get to the last 7 tuplet of the 5 in the second stave. For some reason it doesnt let me fit all the notes. I must have missed something.

imgur.com/XhMaPw4.png for full view

[miker]

Make sure that you enter the first note, then set up the tuplet. Otherwise, you may have a problem entering the last tuplet. Also, make sure that Check for Extra Notes is deselected in the Simple Entry options.

[Peter Thomsen]

There are several ways to input tuplets.
Some entry methods will not let you end a measure with a tuplet because you temporarily “overfill” the measure.

During tuplet entry in the way I did it - Simple Entry with computer keyboard (not mouse) - I did not have to de-select “Check for Extra Notes”.
To create the tuplets I used a sub-tool inside the Simple Entry Tool, namely the Tuplet (sub-)Tool (which is another tool than the main Tuplet Tool).

[notedgirl]

You are both amazing. I haven't been able to sit down and complete the last page as I had planned to this morning but will be checking in later this afternoon. There are a couple other trouble spots I have that I may ask your brilliant minds about as well.

Extremely grateful that this community exists!

Be in touch. Thanks a ton!

[notedgirl]

So would a 9 tuplet (64ths) be in the space of 4 64ths too? For some reason these tuplets are confusing me wicked!

Thanks

[notedgirl]

I ask because at the end of this 4/4 measure is a 9 tuplet... and I thought I put it in correctly- but I see there's a dotted sixteenth rest showing up and I can't figure out how to get it away.
Perhaps this is because I didn't put in the 32nd triplet right?

imgur.com/KzHCfKV (full image)
Havent done this stuff in 3 years...

[miker]

I think you have to count up the total number of those divided tuplets, to figure out the duration. Since they seem to equal 16th note value, that would make sense that there are 16 of them. If it turns out that there are 15 groups, then maybe that last one is 9 in the space of 16. (Just speculating, obviously!)

Get all of the notes into the group, and then worry about subdividing them. It looks like the bracket starts after the first 64th, as well, that might be part of the problem.

Again, I can't see the entire measure.

[notedgirl]

Sorry it doesnt let me post links. if you put imgur.com/KzHCfKV.png into a browser youll see the whole thing.
Having issues with a bunch of these tuplets.
This 9 tuplet and another 11 tuplet, both 64th, both in 4/4... rhythm around it makes it hard for me to understand exactly what value they're supposed to have.

[miker]

That shows me your result. Can you post the image of what you are trying to enter?

On that last beat, you have the eighth note, and then a 64th, and then 8 notes of a ninetuplet, with the rest. Is that first 64th supposed to be part of the ninetuplet, or is the note played 10 times?

[Peter Thomsen]

Perhaps the 9-tuplet is supposed to be
9 {64ths} in the space of 8 {64ths}
?

9 {64ths} = 1 {8th}

That would make sense, since 9:8 is a very common ratio for a 9-tuplet.

[notedgirl]

[notedgirl]