staff resizing

[musicus]

In the attached file I have resized all the staves at 85%. On screen it looks perfect, but when printed out, all the staves on page 2 are printing out too large. The bottom staff on page 1 also prints too large. What am I doing wrong?

[Peter Thomsen]

In the attached file I have resized all the staves at 85%…

In the document you attached, there is a score for Piano.
But there is also a linked part called Piano.

* Are you talking about (= printing) the score - or the linked part?

In the score you have a System Scaling of 85 %, and each staff has been resized to 85 %, resulting in a total scaling of 72 %.
I would avoid using Staff Resizing, and instead alter the System Scaling from 85 % to 72 %.
Why do it so complicated?
Why use two different scalings when one scaling can do it?
Besides, there are some bugs/issues with using Staff Resizing.
You can avoid those bugs/issues by using 100 % Staff Resizing whereever possible.

In the linked part you only have a System Scaling of 85 % (and no Staff Resizing).
Also, the System Margins and Page Margins in the linked part are different from the margins in the score.

In the attached file I have resized all the staves at 85%. On screen it looks perfect, but when printed out, all the staves on page 2 are printing out too large. The bottom staff on page 1 also prints too large…

I am sorry, but I can not see that, neither in the score nor in the linked part.
Like I said, the formatting is different in the linked part, but both in the score and in the linked part I see the same size on Page 1 and Page 2.
Both in the score and in the linked part I see that the bottom staff on Page 1 has the same size as the other staves.

* Are you sure that you attached the right document?

[musicus]

Apparently what I have done is - unintentionally - a double operation. Because I do not understand the difference between Staff Resizing and System Scaling. What I want to do, then, is put them both back to default and then do a System Scaling alone. How would I put them both back to default?

In the attached file I have resized all the staves at 85%…

In the document you attached, there is a score for Piano.
But there is also a linked part called Piano.

* Are you talking about (= printing) the score - or the linked part?

In the score you have a System Scaling of 85 %, and each staff has been resized to 85 %, resulting in a total scaling of 72 %.
I would avoid using Staff Resizing, and instead alter the System Scaling from 85 % to 72 %.
Why do it so complicated?
Why use two different scalings when one scaling can do it?
Besides, there are some bugs/issues with using Staff Resizing.
You can avoid those bugs/issues by only using 100 % Staff Resizing whereever possible.

In the linked part you only have a System Scaling of 85 % (and no Staff Resizing).
Also, the System Margins and Page Margins in the linked part are different from the margins in the score.

In the attached file I have resized all the staves at 85%. On screen it looks perfect, but when printed out, all the staves on page 2 are printing out too large. The bottom staff on page 1 also prints too large…

I am sorry, but I can not see that, neither in the score nor in the linked part.
Like I said, the formatting is different in the linked part, but both in the score and in the linked part I see the same size on Page 1 and Page 2.
Both in the score and in the linked part I see that the bottom staff on Page 1 has the same size as the other staves.

* Are you sure that you attached the right document?

[Peter Thomsen]

…How would I put them both back to default?…

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about the score, right?
You are not talking about the linked part called “Piano”, right?

To re-set the score’s formatting back to default:
Open the document.
Make sure that you are viewing the score (not the linked part called “Piano”!).
Page Layout Tool. This step will automatically bring you to Page View if you are not there already.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

NB:
The command “Redefine Pages” will format the layout according to the settings in
Document menu > Page Format > Score…
Before you run the command “Redefine Pages”, you should go to “Page Format for Score”, and make sure that all the settings are, as you need them to be.

[musicus]

Sorry, but I am confused. I had no idea that there is a "linked part" here.
I thought that all I created was simply a piano score. To follow your instruction to set
the score format back to default, I need to know: how can I tell, when I open the document, if I am looking at
the Score as opposed to a Linked Part? If I have a Linked Part, how can I remove it altogether?

…How would I put them both back to default?…

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about the score, right?
You are not talking about the linked part called “Piano”, right?

To re-set the score’s formatting back to default:
Open the document.
Make sure that you are viewing the score (not the linked part called “Piano”!).
Page Layout Tool. This step will automatically bring you to Page View if you are not there already.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

NB:
The command “Redefine Pages” will format the layout according to the settings in
Document menu > Page Format > Score…
Before you run the command “Redefine Pages”, you should go to “Page Format for Score”, and make sure that all the settings are, as you need them to be.

[Peter Thomsen]

…I had no idea that there is a "linked part" here…

When you choose the command “Print…”, Finale will display the dialog box
“Select Score and Parts for Printing”.
In this dialog box the document’s score and linked parts are shown in a list, letting you select, what to print.

…I need to know: how can I tell, when I open the document, if I am looking at
the Score as opposed to a Linked Part?…

Document menu > Edit Score

To view the linked part:
Document menu > Edit Part > Piano

…If I have a Linked Part, how can I remove it altogether?

Document menu > Manage Parts…

In the dialog box Manage Parts you can
1) Click “Edit Part Definition”, to expand the dialog box.
2) Select a part, and click “Delete Part”, to delete the selected part.

For Your Information:
Step 1) is not necessary for Step 2) - you can delete a part without expanding the dialog box Manage Parts.

[musicus]

Thank you and I read your response carefully. I see that a linked part was created but I don't know how or why I did that. Nevertheless, I removed the linked part in the newly attached file. Then I resized the staff systems for an 85% result.
That should have done it for the entire score, but as you can see, beginning at measure 33 the staves look larger, both on screen and on printout. Why is it doing this? I am baffled. Also, let me ask you this: when I create a piano score, is Finale creating a linked part automatically?

…I had no idea that there is a "linked part" here…

When you choose the command “Print…”, Finale will display the dialog box
“Select Score and Parts for Printing”.
In this dialog box the document’s score and linked parts are shown in a list, letting you select, what to print.

…I need to know: how can I tell, when I open the document, if I am looking at
the Score as opposed to a Linked Part?…

Document menu > Edit Score

To view the linked part:
Document menu > Edit Part > Piano

…If I have a Linked Part, how can I remove it altogether?

Document menu > Manage Parts…

In the dialog box Manage Parts you can
1) Click “Edit Part Definition”, to expand the dialog box.
2) Select a part, and click “Delete Part”, to delete the selected part.

For Your Information:
Step 1) is not necessary for Step 2) - you can delete a part without expanding the dialog box Manage Parts.

[Peter Thomsen]

…Then I resized the staff systems for an 85% result.
That should have done it for the entire score, but as you can see, beginning at measure 33 the staves look larger, both on screen and on printout. Why is it doing this?…

What steps, exactly, were you following, when you “resized the staff systems for an 85% result”.
In the document you attached (= Something 3), there is an 85 % size from measure 33 and onwards
(System Scaling 85 % and Staff Resizing 100 %).
But in the first 32 measures there is a 72 % size because each staff has been resized to 85 %
(System Scaling 85 % and Staff Resizing 85 %).

In a previous post you wrote:

Apparently what I have done is - unintentionally - a double operation. Because I do not understand the difference between Staff Resizing and System Scaling. What I want to do, then, is put them both back to default and then do a System Scaling alone. How would I put them both back to default?

Did you follow my instructions?

(My instructions were:

To re-set the score’s formatting back to default:
Open the document.
Make sure that you are viewing the score (not the linked part called “Piano”!).
Page Layout Tool. This step will automatically bring you to Page View if you are not there already.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

NB:
The command “Redefine Pages” will format the layout according to the settings in
Document menu > Page Format > Score…
Before you run the command “Redefine Pages”, you should go to “Page Format for Score”, and make sure that all the settings are, as you need them to be.)

By The Way:
After you have re-set the score formatting back to the settings in “Page Format for Score”, it may not be necessary to do your second step:
“and then do a System Scaling alone”.
If the settings in “Page Format for Score” include a System Scaling to 85 %, then a re-set “back to default” will include a System Scaling to 85 %.

…when I create a piano score, is Finale generating a linked part automatically?…

No, not automatically.
But you can have linked parts automatically, if you want that.

What steps are you following when you create a piano score?
1) Document from Template?
2) Setup Wizard?

1) You can create your own templates that include already generated linked parts.

2) When you are in the Document Setup Wizard, in the window “Select Instruments”, you have - at the bottom of the window - two options you can select or de-select:
“Use a Separate Channel for Each Staff”
“Generate Linked Parts”

[musicus]

I will study your replies as carefully as possible. Part of my confusion is the Finale dialogue box. "Resize Staff System/and resize systems 100%/Resulting system scaling 85%". So if I want a default appearance - 100% - I resize the systems to 118%, which results in system scaling of 100%. For now, I think I need to create a "clean" autoload file with Setup Wizard. Up until now I have created files using one of several personalized Autoloads. (Maybe I ruined them by doing stuff with resizing that I don't fully understand.) Once I have created the clean file (with no linked parts), I will want to reduce all staves to about 88%. What is the simplest way to do that? Then I will use that as my future template.

…Then I resized the staff systems for an 85% result.
That should have done it for the entire score, but as you can see, beginning at measure 33 the staves look larger, both on screen and on printout. Why is it doing this?…

What steps, exactly, were you following, when you “resized the staff systems for an 85% result”.
In the document you attached (= Something 3), there is an 85 % size from measure 33 and onwards
(System Scaling 85 % and Staff Resizing 100 %).
But in the first 32 measures there is a 72 % size because each staff has been resized to 85 %
(System Scaling 85 % and Staff Resizing 85 %).

In a previous post you wrote:

Apparently what I have done is - unintentionally - a double operation. Because I do not understand the difference between Staff Resizing and System Scaling. What I want to do, then, is put them both back to default and then do a System Scaling alone. How would I put them both back to default?

Did you follow my instructions?

(My instructions were:

To re-set the score’s formatting back to default:
Open the document.
Make sure that you are viewing the score (not the linked part called “Piano”!).
Page Layout Tool. This step will automatically bring you to Page View if you are not there already.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

NB:
The command “Redefine Pages” will format the layout according to the settings in
Document menu > Page Format > Score…
Before you run the command “Redefine Pages”, you should go to “Page Format for Score”, and make sure that all the settings are, as you need them to be.)

By The Way:
After you have re-set the score formatting back to the settings in “Page Format for Score”, it may not be necessary to do your second step “and then do a System Scaling alone”.
If the settings in “Page Format for Score” include a System Scaling to 85 %, then a re-set “back to default” will include a System Scaling to 85 %.

…when I create a piano score, is Finale generating a linked part automatically?…

No, not automatically.
But you can have linked parts automatically, if you want that.

What steps are you following when you create a piano score?
1) Document from Template?
2) Setup Wizard?

1) You can create your own templates that include already generated linked parts.

2) When you are in the Document Setup Wizard, in the window “Select Instruments”, you have - at the bottom of the window - two options you can select or de-select:
“Use a Separate Channel for Each Staff”
“Generate Linked Parts”

[Peter Thomsen]

…So if I want a default appearance - 100% - I resize the systems to 118%, which results in system scaling of 100%…

There is no need to make it so complicated.
Go to
Document menu > Page Format > Score…
In the dialog box “Page Format for Score”, in the lower left corner, there is the pane “System Scaling”.
In the pane, set the Staff Height to 24pt (= 100 % size), and set the System Scaling to 100 %.

PageFormatForScore.jpg (28.13 KiB) Viewed 5308 times

You will not see any change in the document’s appearance until you Redefine Pages:
Switch to the Page Layout Tool, and go to
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

…I think I need to create a "clean" autoload file with Setup Wizard. Up until now I have created files using one of several personalized Autoloads. (Maybe I ruined them by doing stuff with resizing that I don't fully understand.) Once I have created the clean file (with no linked parts), I will want to reduce all staves to about 88%. What is the simplest way to do that? Then I will use that as my future template…

I am not sure that I understand your word “Autoload”?!?
Can I find the word “Autoload” somewhere in the Finale manual?
Please explain.

Anyway, I suggest that you keep it simple, by using only Page Scaling:
Set both Staff and System to 100 % (see above), and use a Page Scaling of 88 %.

[musicus]

By Autoload I mean a template. Maybe its the wrong word. Sorry. I'll figure this out. Thanks for your help.