stem lengths
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 am
- Finale Version: 25.0.0.6858
- Operating System: Windows
I have Finale 25.0.0.6858 Windows 10
I know standard stem lengths are octaves or 3.5 spaces
However, when beaming notes (eg 1/8 notes) the stem lengths shorten under certain beaming conditions.
My example has 3 1/8th notes.
Measure 1: all 3 notes beamed, stems extend octave
Measure 2: first 2 notes beamed, stems an octave
Measure 3: last 2 notes beamed have shortened stems
Measure 4 is how I thought the beams would be (all octave)
Is there a rule of notation I need to know here? As to why the measure 3, beamed 1/8 notes are shorter?
I know standard stem lengths are octaves or 3.5 spaces
However, when beaming notes (eg 1/8 notes) the stem lengths shorten under certain beaming conditions.
My example has 3 1/8th notes.
Measure 1: all 3 notes beamed, stems extend octave
Measure 2: first 2 notes beamed, stems an octave
Measure 3: last 2 notes beamed have shortened stems
Measure 4 is how I thought the beams would be (all octave)
Is there a rule of notation I need to know here? As to why the measure 3, beamed 1/8 notes are shorter?
- Attachments
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- Stem Length.jpg (85.85 KiB) Viewed 7390 times
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Take a look at
Document menu > Document Options > Beams
These beam settings are document specific, so you can have different settings in different documents.
I suggest that you
- read in the online manual about the options in {Document Options - Beams} (= what they do),
- experiment with the settings - to see how different settings affect the layout.
Document menu > Document Options > Beams
These beam settings are document specific, so you can have different settings in different documents.
I suggest that you
- read in the online manual about the options in {Document Options - Beams} (= what they do),
- experiment with the settings - to see how different settings affect the layout.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 am
- Finale Version: 25.0.0.6858
- Operating System: Windows
I used the beam angle tool to lengthen the stems in the 4th measure to 3.5 spaces/octave. Is there a setting to achieve this globally in the document, or, is their a notation rule accounting for the stunted stems in measure 3?
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 am
- Finale Version: 25.0.0.6858
- Operating System: Windows
If I flatten all beams, stems are 3.5 spaces.
Any other setting stunts stems in 3rd measure:
Base on end notes only
Flatten beams based on standard note
Flatten beams based on extreme note
Any other setting stunts stems in 3rd measure:
Base on end notes only
Flatten beams based on standard note
Flatten beams based on extreme note
- Attachments
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- beams.png (16.41 KiB) Viewed 7374 times
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
gdelanghe,
Some of the things you tell, are not true.
The stems are not “all octave” - the stem on the ‘g’ is an octave, but the stem on the ‘a’ is longer.
All the beams are horizontal.
You have not been experimenting with the other settings, like e. g. “Allow Primary Beam Within a Space”, or “Maximum Slope”, right?
Obviously that is the reason why there are so many options in a Finale document.
From your postings I get the impression that you are trying to give as many stems as possible a stem length of 3.5 Spaces.
Take a look at the attached examples (attached both as a graphic and as a Finale document).
Is this what you are trying to do?
Some of the things you tell, are not true.
The stem on the ‘a’ extends octave.gdelanghe wrote:… My example has 3 1/8th notes.
Measure 1: all 3 notes beamed, stems extend octave …
The stem on the ‘f’ is an octave - the stem on the ‘a’ is longer.gdelanghe wrote:… Measure 2: first 2 notes beamed, stems an octave …
You probably mean the stems, not the beams.gdelanghe wrote:… Measure 4 is how I thought the beams would be (all octave) …
The stems are not “all octave” - the stem on the ‘g’ is an octave, but the stem on the ‘a’ is longer.
Some of the stems are 3.5 Spaces - some stems are longer.gdelanghe wrote:… If I flatten all beams, stems are 3.5 spaces …
All the beams are horizontal.
If you understand you correctly, you have only been experimenting with the settings in the pop up menu Beaming Style, right?gdelanghe wrote:… Any other setting stunts stems in 3rd measure:
Base on end notes only
Flatten beams based on standard note
Flatten beams based on extreme note …
You have not been experimenting with the other settings, like e. g. “Allow Primary Beam Within a Space”, or “Maximum Slope”, right?
Different engravings follow different rules.gdelanghe wrote:… Is there a rule of notation I need to know here? …
Obviously that is the reason why there are so many options in a Finale document.
From your postings I get the impression that you are trying to give as many stems as possible a stem length of 3.5 Spaces.
Take a look at the attached examples (attached both as a graphic and as a Finale document).
Is this what you are trying to do?
- Attachments
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- StemLengths.jpg (58.5 KiB) Viewed 7363 times
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- StemLengths.musx.zip
- (14.81 KiB) Downloaded 145 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 am
- Finale Version: 25.0.0.6858
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I personally am fine with the stem lengths that are shortened. I'm notating bagpipe music and the client finds those stems "stunted". Finale shortened them in that instance, but I don't know why. If there is a rule of notation covering that, I'm good with it. If there isn't, I guess I need to set all stems for 3.5
I'm aware of the usual stem rules like note heads in ledger lines extending to middle line etc.
I just didn't know why finale shortened those stems
I'm aware of the usual stem rules like note heads in ledger lines extending to middle line etc.
I just didn't know why finale shortened those stems
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Actually there are two settings (or “rules” if you prefer that term) involved:gdelanghe wrote:… Finale shortened them in that instance, but I don't know why. If there is a rule of notation covering that, I'm good with it …
- Allow Primary Beam Within a Space
In some engravings it is selected, in other engravings it is de-selected.
- Maximum Slope
In some engravings the value is higher, in other engravings it is lower.
Did you examine the settings in the Finale document I attached?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
When “Allow Primary Beam Within a Space” is de-selected, primary beams are not allowed to cross over spaces in the staff.gdelanghe wrote:Allow primary beam within a space did it. Thanks.
But, is there an explanation as to why those stems were shortened?
To avoid that beams cross over spaces in the staff, Finale has to adjust the stem lengths.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:27 am
- Finale Version: 25.0.0.6858
- Operating System: Windows
Thank you for the help! Invaluable. I was an Encore user, but since using Finale I've totally converted. Evidently, unlike Finale, the people at Passport Designs are not interested in responding to questions (for months!), and haven't upgraded/improved their product in over 2 years. I guess, as they say: "If you snooze, you lose"
Again, thanks for a stellar job!
Again, thanks for a stellar job!