Text size changes when text block is attached to a measure

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Kroy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Post by Kroy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:50 pm

When I attach a text block to a measure in the Frame Attributes window, the text size decreases by two points.
How do I stop this behaviour?
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9


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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Without seeing an actual Finale document we can only guess. *)

If I understand you correctly, you are comparing a page attached text block to a measure/staff attached text block, right?

My first guess is that the text point size is not changed (e. g. from 14 Points to 12 Points), rather the text is scaled down with the system/staff.

In a Finale layout a text block is affected by 3 scalings, done with the Resize Tool (icon: %):
- Page Scaling
- System Scaling
- Staff Scaling

To avoid your problem, Keep It Simple:
set System Scaling and Staff Scaling to 100 % (i. e. Staff Height = 24 Points), and use only Page Scaling.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.


*) It might help if you attach a (small) Finale sample document.
This forum does not accept attachments with the Finale file name extension.
Before you can attach a Finale document in this forum, you must compress it, e. g. as a .zip file.
And the file size must not be more than max. 100 KB.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Post by Kroy » Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:24 pm

Thank you.

I'm pretty sure I've set the settings you've recommended, but the issue is still happening.

I've uploaded a Finale file which hopefully demonstrates what's happening..
Attachments
Text attached to bar gets smaller.zip
(59.72 KiB) Downloaded 103 times
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:52 pm

Kroy wrote:… I'm pretty sure I've set the settings you've recommended, but the issue is still happening …
1) I recommended setting both System Scaling and Staff Scaling to 100 % (i. e. Staff Height = 24 Points), and instead use only
Page Scaling.

In the Finale 2009 document you attached, the Page Scaling is not used (i. e. Page Scaling = 100 %).
My guess is that you need a Page Scaling of 85 %. (Try it!)


2) You have changed the settings in “Page Format for Score”.
All new systems/pages will be formatted according to the settings in “Page Format for Score”.
However:
Already existing systems/pages will not be affected.
To update already existing systems/pages with the new settings in “Page Format for Score”, use the command Redefine Pages
(in the Page Layout menu).


In the Finale 2009 document you attached, there is only one page (= Page 1), with these settings:
Page Scaling: 100 %
System Scaling: 85 %
Staff Scaling: 100 %
- giving a resulting scaling of 100 % for pagge attached text blocks, and 85 % for measure/staff attached text blocks
Try a Redefine Pages - and voila!
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Post by Kroy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:57 am

Where do i set the values for Page, staff and system scaling, and staff height?

What I've been doing is going to:
Document menu/Page Format/Score

For the document I sent you the settings read:
Scaling
Scale page to 100%
Staff height: 24 Points
And Scale System: 100%
Resulting System Scaling: 100%
This is since I changed the Staff Height to 24 points in that dialogue box..
So I thought I had things correct..

But should I be entering the values somewhere else?
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:57 pm

Kroy wrote:… What I've been doing is going to:
Document menu/Page Format/Score

For the document I sent you the settings read:
Scaling
Scale page to 100%
Staff height: 24 Points
And Scale System: 100%
Resulting System Scaling: 100%
This is since I changed the Staff Height to 24 points in that dialogue box..
So I thought I had things correct..

But should I be entering the values somewhere else?
Did you try my suggestion (= Try a Redefine Pages - and voila!) ?
The command Redefine Pages is located in the Page Layout menu (to get the Page Layout menu you must be in the Page Layout Tool).

You have been entering the values in the right place - assuming that you need these values as the default settings for systems/pages in the document.

For a single/individual system/page in the document you can have settings that are different from the default settings.
That is one of the powerful features.

Hence my words (quoting myself):
Peter Thomsen wrote:All new systems/pages will be formatted according to the settings in “Page Format for Score”.
However:
Already existing systems/pages will not be affected.
To update already existing systems/pages with the new settings in “Page Format for Score”, use the command Redefine Pages
(in the Page Layout menu).
In the Finale 2009 document you attached, there is one already existing page (= Page 1).
This page has not been affected by your change in Page Format for Score.
The settings for Page 1 are:
(System Scaling:)
Scale Page to 100%
Staff Height: 20.5 Points
And Resize System: 100%
Resulting System Scaling: 85%

(Let us not worry about the Staff Scaling.
In this system the Staff Scaling is 100%, and you seldom, if ever, need any other percentage for the Staff Scaling)

To update Page 1 with the new settings in Page Format for Score, use the command “Redefine Pages”.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.

By The Way:
I could be wrong here, but it is my guess that a Page Scaling of 100% will make the music notation a little too big for your needs.
I suggest that you try a Page Scaling of 85% (or smaller) - and then Redefine Pages.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Post by Kroy » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:46 am

Ok, I've got it now.

I did try redefine pages originally, but with whatever settings I'd changed it made everything jump around so I wasn't sure i was doing the right thing..

But with a bit of perseverance I've managed to get this to work.

So the page scaling that works for me is 86%..

I then have to adjust the overall vertical position of the staffs slightly and the text sizes (mostly an increase of 2 points), but strangely there is one text block that I use regularly in the same place that seems to look the same when not adjusted..

But now the original problem where the text in the measure-attached text blocks decreased doesn't occur - great!

Big thanks for your patience and time spent helping me with this :D
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:14 am

Kroy wrote:… strangely there is one text block that I use regularly in the same place that seems to look the same when not adjusted …
Perhaps the text has the option “Fixed Size” selected?

The option “Fixed Size” can be useful, e. g. for making a Title text block the same size in score and linked parts.

However, “Fixed Size” should be used carefully.
Using “Fixed Size” in lyrics may cause spacing issues.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Post by Kroy » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:44 pm

That was it, for some reason Fixed Size was selected on that text.
(that must have been an accident as I've never used Fixed Size..)
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

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