Behavior of Rests in Speedy

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:10 am

I am editing two layers in Speedy. I click on and hold an out-of-position rest and it jumps to its normal default position for a single layer. I release the mouse and the rest jumps back out-of-postion. Any way to make the rest stick in the default position without actually shifting it with the mouse?

I don't recall this behavior in old versions of Finale. The rest stuck in the default position with one click. Some preference I have set incorrectly?
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:17 pm

The * key on a rest puts it in its default position, that's the method I use.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:39 pm

The culprit could be this document setting:

Document menu > Document Options > Layers > Consolidate Rests Across Layers
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:57 pm

Thanks, michelp. Thats a good key command to know.

Peter, Consolidate Rests Across Layers was not checked. When I check it, I saw no change in the behavior. Is it different for you?

If not, I don't understand the purpose of the rest moving to default position on a mouse click if it won't stay there.
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Harpsi
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Post by Harpsi » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:06 pm

It is the same for me. I think it has been like this for ages, but I am not completely sure.
In simple entry, the behavior is a bit different. If I click a rest it gets selected. When I start to move it with the cursor keys, I can never be certain that the rest is going to move up or down. Depends on what layer I am in and if there are more layers than on in the same bar. I guess this maybe does not concern your question, but Finale apparently has a problematic relation to moving rests...
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:07 pm

John Ruggero wrote:I am editing two layers in Speedy. I click on and hold an out-of-position rest and it jumps to its normal default position for a single layer. I release the mouse and the rest jumps back out-of-postion. Any way to make the rest stick in the default position without actually shifting it with the mouse? …
Instead of shifting the rest with the mouse you can use the Simple Entry Tool, and nudge a selected rest up/down with the arrow keys.
As Harpsi points out, the rest may make a big jump on the first nudge.
But after the first nudge the rest will behave, and move correctly up/down with the arrow keys.

John Ruggero wrote:… Peter, Consolidate Rests Across Layers was not checked. When I check it, I saw no change in the behavior. Is it different for you? …
John, in your previous posts you have neither revealed the actual music, nor attached a Finale sample document.
Hence I can not investigate whether “it is different” for me.

For me the option “Consolidate Rests Across Layers” works where both layers have the same rest value (e. g. quarter rest) on the same beat.
In that particular case “Consolidate Rests Across Layers” will move both rests to the default position (= no need to use the * key on both rests).

Are you talking about a case where both layers have the same rest value (e. g. quarter rest) on the same beat?
Or are you talking about some other situation?

By The Way:
I suppose that you you aware of the plug-in “Move Rests” (?)
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:59 pm

Thank you all for the various alternative suggestions which I will try. But I am really mostly concerned about the behavior I mentioned, because if it is indeed normal, I am going to report it to MM.

Thanks, Harpsi for the confirmation. As you said, it has been like this for years and has annoyed me for just as long.

Sorry, Peter, I didn't give an example because it is general behavior and the same in any Finale 2014.5 default document. Here are screen shots from a Finale 2014.5 default document to illustrate a standard situation. The rests are too low and should be in their normal default position:
Speedy Rests.jpeg
Speedy Rests.jpeg (7.96 KiB) Viewed 9376 times
Speedy Rests 2.jpeg
Speedy Rests 2.jpeg (9.33 KiB) Viewed 9376 times
If one clicks on the rest and holds, the rest immediately rises up to its default position where I would like it to stay. But when one releases the mouse, the rest goes back down to its former position. Why doesn't it stay put? And if this is normal, why does it rise up in the first place? What does this accomplish? To show where the default position is? But everyone knows that.

The only way to get the rest to stay is to actually move it a little with the mouse. Then it will stay.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jetcopy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:21 am

As michelp posted earlier, pressing the * key pops toggles the rest between the normal position and the 2 layer position. There's no need to move it with the mouse.

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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:05 am

Jetcopy wrote:As michelp posted earlier, pressing the * key pops toggles the rest between the normal position and the 2 layer position. There's no need to move it with the mouse.
Since I prefer to use the mouse for rest editing, it would be much more convenient and faster for me to do this particular operation with the mouse and without the extra step of a keyboard command.

It appears that I have described normal Finale behavior and will therefore make a request at MM. Perhaps they can explain what is accomplished when the rest obligingly moves to the default position but then resolutely refuses to stay there.
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Post by zuill » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:26 am

This behavior is the same in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2014.5. It is also the same in v25. It probably always has been this way.

Does the manual say that clicking on the rest returns it to the default position? Unless it doesn't, I can't say that it is a bug.

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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Thanks for confirming that, Zuill. I found nothing in the documentation about it. I may be mistaken about an old version with different behavior; the mention of the asterisk key command jogged my memory, and I realized that I have used that system in the past. But it is cumbersome and apparently needless, and I will submit a feature request.

I will be submitting many feature requests to MM. My first, regarding the uneven sides of angled hairpins, received an responsive reply from MM. The responder agreed that this was a issue that should be addressed..
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Post by Charles Lawrence » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:09 pm

John, et al.,

For Windows anyway, there is a document option that controls this "default" behavior. Go to "Document->Document Options...->Layers". Choose layer 2, then set the adjust floating rests setting to zero steps. This should take care of the problem in your workflow, but it is such a simple matter to reposition the floating rest to the default position, why bother.

BTW: I cannot find anything about mouse clicking on the rest, but the "*" command is documented.
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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:35 pm

Thanks Charles. I tried that and wish that would work, but it is a global adjustment and only some of my layer 2 rests should be in default position; many others should not. Did I do it wrong?

This brings up a related topic. Why doesn't Finale do a better job of positioning rests in multiple layers automatically? But I refrain...
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Post by Charles Lawrence » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:42 pm

Yes, that's a document wide setting. If your document requires that only some floating rests be at the zero position default, it looks like you will need to reposition those floating rests manually.
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:48 pm

John Ruggero wrote:Thanks Charles. I tried that and wish that would work, but it is a global adjustment and only some of my layer 2 rests should be in default position; many others should not. Did I do it wrong?

This brings up a related topic. Why doesn't Finale do a better job of positioning rests in multiple layers automatically? But I refrain...
Charles's suggestion is a good one, but can be a kind of Catch-22. It fixes one problem only to introduce another, different one.

By the way, Finale's default rest adjustment is +6 steps for Layer 1 and -6 steps for layer 2. Long ago, I changed my files to be +4 steps for Layer 1 and -4 steps for layer 2. The reason being, for the type of work I do, the new settings require a little less moving of rests and generally look better on certain types of layered notation, like drum set and percussion. Just thought I'd throw that out, for whatever it's worth.

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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:02 pm

Thanks, N. That's a great tip. I'll do some experimentation.
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