Behavior of Rests in Speedy
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
I am editing two layers in Speedy. I click on and hold an out-of-position rest and it jumps to its normal default position for a single layer. I release the mouse and the rest jumps back out-of-postion. Any way to make the rest stick in the default position without actually shifting it with the mouse?
I don't recall this behavior in old versions of Finale. The rest stuck in the default position with one click. Some preference I have set incorrectly?
I don't recall this behavior in old versions of Finale. The rest stuck in the default position with one click. Some preference I have set incorrectly?
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- michelp
- Posts: 2057
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
- Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
- Operating System: Mac
The * key on a rest puts it in its default position, that's the method I use.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
The culprit could be this document setting:
Document menu > Document Options > Layers > Consolidate Rests Across Layers
Document menu > Document Options > Layers > Consolidate Rests Across Layers
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks, michelp. Thats a good key command to know.
Peter, Consolidate Rests Across Layers was not checked. When I check it, I saw no change in the behavior. Is it different for you?
If not, I don't understand the purpose of the rest moving to default position on a mouse click if it won't stay there.
Peter, Consolidate Rests Across Layers was not checked. When I check it, I saw no change in the behavior. Is it different for you?
If not, I don't understand the purpose of the rest moving to default position on a mouse click if it won't stay there.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
It is the same for me. I think it has been like this for ages, but I am not completely sure.
In simple entry, the behavior is a bit different. If I click a rest it gets selected. When I start to move it with the cursor keys, I can never be certain that the rest is going to move up or down. Depends on what layer I am in and if there are more layers than on in the same bar. I guess this maybe does not concern your question, but Finale apparently has a problematic relation to moving rests...
In simple entry, the behavior is a bit different. If I click a rest it gets selected. When I start to move it with the cursor keys, I can never be certain that the rest is going to move up or down. Depends on what layer I am in and if there are more layers than on in the same bar. I guess this maybe does not concern your question, but Finale apparently has a problematic relation to moving rests...
Finale 2014.5, Finale 25, Dorico 4, Musescore 4
Windows 11
Windows 11
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Instead of shifting the rest with the mouse you can use the Simple Entry Tool, and nudge a selected rest up/down with the arrow keys.John Ruggero wrote:I am editing two layers in Speedy. I click on and hold an out-of-position rest and it jumps to its normal default position for a single layer. I release the mouse and the rest jumps back out-of-postion. Any way to make the rest stick in the default position without actually shifting it with the mouse? …
As Harpsi points out, the rest may make a big jump on the first nudge.
But after the first nudge the rest will behave, and move correctly up/down with the arrow keys.
John, in your previous posts you have neither revealed the actual music, nor attached a Finale sample document.John Ruggero wrote:… Peter, Consolidate Rests Across Layers was not checked. When I check it, I saw no change in the behavior. Is it different for you? …
Hence I can not investigate whether “it is different” for me.
For me the option “Consolidate Rests Across Layers” works where both layers have the same rest value (e. g. quarter rest) on the same beat.
In that particular case “Consolidate Rests Across Layers” will move both rests to the default position (= no need to use the * key on both rests).
Are you talking about a case where both layers have the same rest value (e. g. quarter rest) on the same beat?
Or are you talking about some other situation?
By The Way:
I suppose that you you aware of the plug-in “Move Rests” (?)
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Thank you all for the various alternative suggestions which I will try. But I am really mostly concerned about the behavior I mentioned, because if it is indeed normal, I am going to report it to MM.
Thanks, Harpsi for the confirmation. As you said, it has been like this for years and has annoyed me for just as long.
Sorry, Peter, I didn't give an example because it is general behavior and the same in any Finale 2014.5 default document. Here are screen shots from a Finale 2014.5 default document to illustrate a standard situation. The rests are too low and should be in their normal default position:
If one clicks on the rest and holds, the rest immediately rises up to its default position where I would like it to stay. But when one releases the mouse, the rest goes back down to its former position. Why doesn't it stay put? And if this is normal, why does it rise up in the first place? What does this accomplish? To show where the default position is? But everyone knows that.
The only way to get the rest to stay is to actually move it a little with the mouse. Then it will stay.
Thanks, Harpsi for the confirmation. As you said, it has been like this for years and has annoyed me for just as long.
Sorry, Peter, I didn't give an example because it is general behavior and the same in any Finale 2014.5 default document. Here are screen shots from a Finale 2014.5 default document to illustrate a standard situation. The rests are too low and should be in their normal default position:
If one clicks on the rest and holds, the rest immediately rises up to its default position where I would like it to stay. But when one releases the mouse, the rest goes back down to its former position. Why doesn't it stay put? And if this is normal, why does it rise up in the first place? What does this accomplish? To show where the default position is? But everyone knows that.
The only way to get the rest to stay is to actually move it a little with the mouse. Then it will stay.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Since I prefer to use the mouse for rest editing, it would be much more convenient and faster for me to do this particular operation with the mouse and without the extra step of a keyboard command.Jetcopy wrote:As michelp posted earlier, pressing the * key pops toggles the rest between the normal position and the 2 layer position. There's no need to move it with the mouse.
It appears that I have described normal Finale behavior and will therefore make a request at MM. Perhaps they can explain what is accomplished when the rest obligingly moves to the default position but then resolutely refuses to stay there.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
This behavior is the same in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2014.5. It is also the same in v25. It probably always has been this way.
Does the manual say that clicking on the rest returns it to the default position? Unless it doesn't, I can't say that it is a bug.
Zuill
Does the manual say that clicking on the rest returns it to the default position? Unless it doesn't, I can't say that it is a bug.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks for confirming that, Zuill. I found nothing in the documentation about it. I may be mistaken about an old version with different behavior; the mention of the asterisk key command jogged my memory, and I realized that I have used that system in the past. But it is cumbersome and apparently needless, and I will submit a feature request.
I will be submitting many feature requests to MM. My first, regarding the uneven sides of angled hairpins, received an responsive reply from MM. The responder agreed that this was a issue that should be addressed..
I will be submitting many feature requests to MM. My first, regarding the uneven sides of angled hairpins, received an responsive reply from MM. The responder agreed that this was a issue that should be addressed..
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- Charles Lawrence
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:54 am
- Finale Version: F25.2 on W10
- Operating System: Windows
John, et al.,
For Windows anyway, there is a document option that controls this "default" behavior. Go to "Document->Document Options...->Layers". Choose layer 2, then set the adjust floating rests setting to zero steps. This should take care of the problem in your workflow, but it is such a simple matter to reposition the floating rest to the default position, why bother.
BTW: I cannot find anything about mouse clicking on the rest, but the "*" command is documented.
For Windows anyway, there is a document option that controls this "default" behavior. Go to "Document->Document Options...->Layers". Choose layer 2, then set the adjust floating rests setting to zero steps. This should take care of the problem in your workflow, but it is such a simple matter to reposition the floating rest to the default position, why bother.
BTW: I cannot find anything about mouse clicking on the rest, but the "*" command is documented.
Charles
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks Charles. I tried that and wish that would work, but it is a global adjustment and only some of my layer 2 rests should be in default position; many others should not. Did I do it wrong?
This brings up a related topic. Why doesn't Finale do a better job of positioning rests in multiple layers automatically? But I refrain...
This brings up a related topic. Why doesn't Finale do a better job of positioning rests in multiple layers automatically? But I refrain...
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- Charles Lawrence
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:54 am
- Finale Version: F25.2 on W10
- Operating System: Windows
Yes, that's a document wide setting. If your document requires that only some floating rests be at the zero position default, it looks like you will need to reposition those floating rests manually.
Charles
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Charles's suggestion is a good one, but can be a kind of Catch-22. It fixes one problem only to introduce another, different one.John Ruggero wrote:Thanks Charles. I tried that and wish that would work, but it is a global adjustment and only some of my layer 2 rests should be in default position; many others should not. Did I do it wrong?
This brings up a related topic. Why doesn't Finale do a better job of positioning rests in multiple layers automatically? But I refrain...
By the way, Finale's default rest adjustment is +6 steps for Layer 1 and -6 steps for layer 2. Long ago, I changed my files to be +4 steps for Layer 1 and -4 steps for layer 2. The reason being, for the type of work I do, the new settings require a little less moving of rests and generally look better on certain types of layered notation, like drum set and percussion. Just thought I'd throw that out, for whatever it's worth.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks, N. That's a great tip. I'll do some experimentation.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."