Finale Forum

Can anyone tell me where to find the euro style quarter (crotchet) rest in the Maestro or Engraver font set? It's the backward eighth rest.

Ken

I don't see that it's there.

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Fin ... o_Font.htm

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Fin ... ntREAL.htm

I believe that you will have to find a specialty font that includes it.

Like backward note heads in bass clef, I can't recall seeing that symbol except in hand copied English charts 19th century or older. Being a bassist who played a lot of Gilbert and Sullivan, I recall both symbols from photocopies of the original D'Oyly Carte charts.

I don't think it's particularly "European" - I've mainly seen it in Novello scores from the 19th century, using moveable type.

It's not in Maestro or Engraver, as far as I can see, for which I am eternally grateful. It's very easy to confuse quaver and crotchet rests in that style, which makes for awkward sight-reading.

I wouldn't recommend using it, unless you are deliberately copying a layout for some reason. It's included in Bravura, and perhaps other SMuFL standard fonts.

It is in the November font, but you would have to pay for that.

Bill

BuonTempi wrote:I don't think it's particularly "European" - I've mainly seen it in Novello scores from the 19th century, using moveable type.

You and the British can argue whether or not Novello, an English publisher, is European or not. It is certainly not something they were still using by the end of the 19th C. (looking at a late 19th C. Novello vocal score right now)

BuonTempi wrote:It's not in Maestro or Engraver, as far as I can see, for which I am eternally grateful. It's very easy to confuse quaver and crotchet rests in that style, which makes for awkward sight-reading.

Oh yea, I can certainly vouch for that.

MikeHalloran wrote:You and the British can argue whether or not Novello, an English publisher, is European or not. It is certainly not something they were still using by the end of the 19th C. (looking at a late 19th C. Novello vocal score right now)

Novello is a small subset of European. As you point out (and indeed I intimated), it was used on some of their scores. But not all. There are plenty of European publishers that never used that symbol. So it's not really a European attribute. Could we agree?

Thanks folks. It's was common enough that I was taught to recognize it under the Royal Schools of Music curriculum. I would prefer not to ever see it again but I'm recreating parts of Franck's Symphony in D minor which uses it throughout. I'm surprised non-of Finale's fonts have it.

I've always heard these referred to as "French rests." I think they were the main perpetrators. Players today don't like them.

Anything unorthodox is described as "French".

Dorico has a switch to use them in its Engraving settings.

FWIW I think a lot of 18th/19th century composers' manuscripts of various nationalities used these rests (plus down-stems on the right of noteheads and other quirks) as v quick to write.

When I manage to persuade a young composer to write by hand at all (with some success, once I've explained why), I don't recommend this style, but do show them one or two examples.

...a dyslexic nightmare

Out of interest, I've just looked at a strange vocal score of Trovatore which has these potentially confusing rests, published by Boosey (before & Hawkes) in the so-called 'Royal Edition' edited by Arthur Sullivan. There's no publication date that I can find anywhere on the score, but what makes it very odd indeed is that although there is a singable English translation as well as the original Italian, there are no stage directions anywhere in the score in any language.

BuonTempi wrote:

MikeHalloran wrote:You and the British can argue whether or not Novello, an English publisher, is European or not. It is certainly not something they were still using by the end of the 19th C. (looking at a late 19th C. Novello vocal score right now)

Novello is a small subset of European. As you point out (and indeed I intimated), it was used on some of their scores. But not all. There are plenty of European publishers that never used that symbol. So it's not really a European attribute. Could we agree?

I was speaking in jest—should have used a smiley, no doubt. We absolutely agree.

I remember the first time that I encountered a chart that had that symbol. Even though I figured it out quickly, I was sight reading a performance and it threw me a bit.

michelp wrote:...a dyslexic nightmare

You should join DAM: Mothers Against Dyslexia.

BuonTempi wrote:Anything unorthodox is described as "French".

Dorico has a switch to use them in its Engraving settings.

Of course they do. You can't knock out a simple lead sheet in Dorico but...