Out of range notes.

NickG · Post by **NickG** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:24 pm

I have a piece that has a flute part with a "B Foot". In the "View" menu, I have "Out of Range Notes assigned to advanced, yet when I show the B (below middle C) on the flue, it shows out of range. Why?

N Grossingink · Post by **N Grossingink** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:02 pm

Who knows why. Is there a reason you are paying attention to Finale's suggestions rather than using a good book on orchestration?

N.

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Turn off the feature to show out of range notes. That's designed for users with little knowledge of the instruments. As far as playback, if the sample doesn't play the note, that is another issue. Garritan ranges can be customized to play notes that are not in the out-of-the-box sample, but this is not for the faint of heart. Otherwise, use the SoftSynth.

Zuill

NickG · Post by **NickG** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:48 pm

zuill wrote:Turn off the feature to show out of range notes. That's designed for users with little knowledge of the instruments. As far as playback, if the sample doesn't play the note, that is another issue. Garritan ranges can be customized to play notes that are not in the out-of-the-box sample, but this is not for the faint of heart. Otherwise, use the SoftSynth.

Zuill

The sample plays fine. I'll turn the thing off. Just wondered why Finale acts this way. Thanks.

Charles Lawrence · Post by **Charles Lawrence** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:24 pm

NickG, et al.,

For your information, here are the details that explain what you are seeing.

Finale, beginning with version F2012, stores certain data in a SQLite database. This database contains various tables. Among these are tables for instruments and instrument ranges. There are currently 768 instruments. The flute takes slot #44. The range table contains data for the high and low note limits for selected instruments. For each instrument there are high/low note values for up to 4 expertise levels. These are advanced, intermediate, and beginner. For the flute, there is a fourth unknown expertise level that apparently is not used by Finale. These expertise levels correspond to the selections available in "View->Out-of-Range Notes". If a note falls outside the range, then it is displayed on the screen in a different color. This feature can be turned off if desired. These instrument ranges for the various levels of expertise were chosen by the Finale programmers, who may or may not have gotten it correct.

Here is a table of the values stored in the database range table for the flute. The numbers in parentheses are MIDI note numbers, the actual data stored in the table.

Expertise Level Low Note High note
advanced C4 (60) C7 (96)
intermediate C4 (60) G6 (91)
beginner D#4 (63) D6 (86)
unknown B4 (71) C#6 (85)

NOTE: The lowest note for advanced and intermediate expertise is C4, middle C. Any note below C4 will display in the different color.

GROWL

Apparently the forum software removes white space. I had the table all spaced out so the columns lined up. I think you can figure it out though. Also, there is no tab in the editor, another deficiency.

motet · Post by **motet** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:29 pm

I'm with Ron--if you're unsure of instrument ranges, leave it on; if, on the other hand, it annoys you, turn it off altogether. Those ranges are just guidelines, anyway.

NickG · Post by **NickG** » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:05 pm

Thanks Charles for your in depth explanation.

ebiggs1 · Post by **ebiggs1** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm

"... yet when I show the B (below middle C) on the flue,..."

Will anybody hear it? Pretty weak note for a flute.

motet · Post by **motet** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:19 pm

It's fairly common.

MikeHalloran · Post by **MikeHalloran** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:49 pm

motet wrote:It's fairly common.

Just make the mistake of writing it, however. In a chamber or solo piece, you're fine. In an orchestral or band arrangement, every flute player will take it upon him/herself to point out to you that no one will hear it.

I was young once.

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:55 pm

If it wasn't needed, it would not have been created. Knowing how to use it properly is the domain of the creative expert.

Zuill

ebiggs1 · Post by **ebiggs1** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:39 pm

In an orchestral or band arrangement, every flute player will take it upon him/herself to point out to you that no one will hear it.

Especially if they are high schoolers!

motet · Post by **motet** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:34 pm

Not all music is tutti band or orchestral music.

David Ward · Post by **David Ward** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:05 pm

motet wrote:Not all music is tutti band or orchestral music.

Quite. Although his flutes don't go lower than C, Verdi, for example, was a master at transparently accompanied low flutes.

OCTO · Post by **OCTO** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:52 am

FYI, in his very late opus Richard Strauss write for violin F# (under open string).
And not using scordatura.
And that is not mistake.

In Ligeti's Violin Concerto, Bassoon plays G5 (G-clef, g on the top space), and politely writes above it "Est ist möglich!"

So, don't complain to much.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:12 am

So what's supposed to happen in the case of the Strauss?

OCTO · Post by **OCTO** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:11 am

motet wrote:So what's supposed to happen in the case of the Strauss?

Stop the music, retune all violins, play the note, return to normal tuning, and continue.

David Ward · Post by **David Ward** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:37 am

OCTO wrote:
motet wrote:So what's supposed to happen in the case of the Strauss?
Stop the music, retune all violins, play the note, return to normal tuning, and continue.

I know I've seen this Strauss F# and that it is in a score I have here, but I can't find it. What score is it in, OCTO? I sort of remember (but I may be wrong) that it's doubled by other instruments and can be safely omitted, and that it's apparent purpose is to show the complete line in the part.

OCTO · Post by **OCTO** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:49 am

David Ward wrote:What score is it in, OCTO?

Metamorphosen, I believe it is around measure 40.

David Ward · Post by **David Ward** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:05 am

Ach yes!

Bar 49: violin 1 in unison with violas 1, 4 & 5 and cellos 1 & 2. It has brackets around it in the violin part.

N Grossingink · Post by **N Grossingink** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:01 pm

Nielsen's Wind Quintet ends with a low A from the bassoon, a half step lower than the instrument's range. A quick trip to the grocery market solves that:

https://youtu.be/VzzomD9vbUY?t=25m8s

N.

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