Out of range notes.
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
I have a piece that has a flute part with a "B Foot". In the "View" menu, I have "Out of Range Notes assigned to advanced, yet when I show the B (below middle C) on the flue, it shows out of range. Why?
MacBook Pro Retina Display, 16 gig ram, 1TB SSD. 4TB External drive
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Who knows why. Is there a reason you are paying attention to Finale's suggestions rather than using a good book on orchestration?
N.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Turn off the feature to show out of range notes. That's designed for users with little knowledge of the instruments. As far as playback, if the sample doesn't play the note, that is another issue. Garritan ranges can be customized to play notes that are not in the out-of-the-box sample, but this is not for the faint of heart. Otherwise, use the SoftSynth.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
The sample plays fine. I'll turn the thing off. Just wondered why Finale acts this way. Thanks.zuill wrote:Turn off the feature to show out of range notes. That's designed for users with little knowledge of the instruments. As far as playback, if the sample doesn't play the note, that is another issue. Garritan ranges can be customized to play notes that are not in the out-of-the-box sample, but this is not for the faint of heart. Otherwise, use the SoftSynth.
Zuill
MacBook Pro Retina Display, 16 gig ram, 1TB SSD. 4TB External drive
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
- Charles Lawrence
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:54 am
- Finale Version: F25.2 on W10
- Operating System: Windows
NickG, et al.,
For your information, here are the details that explain what you are seeing.
Finale, beginning with version F2012, stores certain data in a SQLite database. This database contains various tables. Among these are tables for instruments and instrument ranges. There are currently 768 instruments. The flute takes slot #44. The range table contains data for the high and low note limits for selected instruments. For each instrument there are high/low note values for up to 4 expertise levels. These are advanced, intermediate, and beginner. For the flute, there is a fourth unknown expertise level that apparently is not used by Finale. These expertise levels correspond to the selections available in "View->Out-of-Range Notes". If a note falls outside the range, then it is displayed on the screen in a different color. This feature can be turned off if desired. These instrument ranges for the various levels of expertise were chosen by the Finale programmers, who may or may not have gotten it correct.
Here is a table of the values stored in the database range table for the flute. The numbers in parentheses are MIDI note numbers, the actual data stored in the table.
Expertise Level Low Note High note
advanced C4 (60) C7 (96)
intermediate C4 (60) G6 (91)
beginner D#4 (63) D6 (86)
unknown B4 (71) C#6 (85)
NOTE: The lowest note for advanced and intermediate expertise is C4, middle C. Any note below C4 will display in the different color.
GROWL Apparently the forum software removes white space. I had the table all spaced out so the columns lined up. I think you can figure it out though. Also, there is no tab in the editor, another deficiency.
For your information, here are the details that explain what you are seeing.
Finale, beginning with version F2012, stores certain data in a SQLite database. This database contains various tables. Among these are tables for instruments and instrument ranges. There are currently 768 instruments. The flute takes slot #44. The range table contains data for the high and low note limits for selected instruments. For each instrument there are high/low note values for up to 4 expertise levels. These are advanced, intermediate, and beginner. For the flute, there is a fourth unknown expertise level that apparently is not used by Finale. These expertise levels correspond to the selections available in "View->Out-of-Range Notes". If a note falls outside the range, then it is displayed on the screen in a different color. This feature can be turned off if desired. These instrument ranges for the various levels of expertise were chosen by the Finale programmers, who may or may not have gotten it correct.
Here is a table of the values stored in the database range table for the flute. The numbers in parentheses are MIDI note numbers, the actual data stored in the table.
Expertise Level Low Note High note
advanced C4 (60) C7 (96)
intermediate C4 (60) G6 (91)
beginner D#4 (63) D6 (86)
unknown B4 (71) C#6 (85)
NOTE: The lowest note for advanced and intermediate expertise is C4, middle C. Any note below C4 will display in the different color.
GROWL Apparently the forum software removes white space. I had the table all spaced out so the columns lined up. I think you can figure it out though. Also, there is no tab in the editor, another deficiency.
Last edited by Charles Lawrence on Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
Windows 10 Professional (x64) Version 1607 build 14393
3.50 GHz Intel Core i7-5930K, Multi-core (6 total), Hyper-threaded (12 total)
32638 MB Memory, 17514.37 GB usable HD
Finale 2014.5.6359, Finale 25.2.0.92
Garritan GPO4.02
Thanks Charles for your in depth explanation.
MacBook Pro Retina Display, 16 gig ram, 1TB SSD. 4TB External drive
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
MacOS Sierra
Finale 2008, 2010, 2011b, 2012a, 2012c, 2014d, 25.2
GPO 4
Sibelius 1, 2, 3, 7.5 8.5
Dorico
Logic Pro X, Cubase 9
UR44 Korg M1, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
Adobe CC
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
"... yet when I show the B (below middle C) on the flue,..."
Will anybody hear it? Pretty weak note for a flute.
Will anybody hear it? Pretty weak note for a flute.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
Just make the mistake of writing it, however. In a chamber or solo piece, you're fine. In an orchestral or band arrangement, every flute player will take it upon him/herself to point out to you that no one will hear it.motet wrote:It's fairly common.
I was young once.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
If it wasn't needed, it would not have been created. Knowing how to use it properly is the domain of the creative expert.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
In an orchestral or band arrangement, every flute player will take it upon him/herself to point out to you that no one will hear it.
Especially if they are high schoolers!
Especially if they are high schoolers!
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Quite. Although his flutes don't go lower than C, Verdi, for example, was a master at transparently accompanied low flutes.motet wrote:Not all music is tutti band or orchestral music.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
FYI, in his very late opus Richard Strauss write for violin F# (under open string).
And not using scordatura.
And that is not mistake.
In Ligeti's Violin Concerto, Bassoon plays G5 (G-clef, g on the top space), and politely writes above it "Est ist möglich!"
So, don't complain to much.
And not using scordatura.
And that is not mistake.
In Ligeti's Violin Concerto, Bassoon plays G5 (G-clef, g on the top space), and politely writes above it "Est ist möglich!"
So, don't complain to much.
www.notat.io - A Forum devoted to the Practice of Music Notation
Stop the music, retune all violins, play the note, return to normal tuning, and continue.motet wrote:So what's supposed to happen in the case of the Strauss?
www.notat.io - A Forum devoted to the Practice of Music Notation
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
I know I've seen this Strauss F# and that it is in a score I have here, but I can't find it. What score is it in, OCTO? I sort of remember (but I may be wrong) that it's doubled by other instruments and can be safely omitted, and that it's apparent purpose is to show the complete line in the part.OCTO wrote:Stop the music, retune all violins, play the note, return to normal tuning, and continue.motet wrote:So what's supposed to happen in the case of the Strauss?
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Ach yes!
Bar 49: violin 1 in unison with violas 1, 4 & 5 and cellos 1 & 2. It has brackets around it in the violin part.
Bar 49: violin 1 in unison with violas 1, 4 & 5 and cellos 1 & 2. It has brackets around it in the violin part.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Nielsen's Wind Quintet ends with a low A from the bassoon, a half step lower than the instrument's range. A quick trip to the grocery market solves that:
https://youtu.be/VzzomD9vbUY?t=25m8s
N.
https://youtu.be/VzzomD9vbUY?t=25m8s
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3