Strange behavior with "file info" text inserts

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:29 pm

I notice that if you have entered, for example, the Title text insert into a text box, and you then select it and type something new or pick another insert, it changes the file info itself! I was trying to change something from the title to the subtitle and kept wondering why my file info was changing.

On the other hand, if you enter such an insert into an Expression, it doesn't have this behavior--in fact, you can't change the text that way--you select it and type something new and it seems OK, but when you close the dialog and assign the expression, it has not been changed!

Neither of these is desirable, I don't think. I would be surprised if they've fixed it for F25, but if someone wants to try...


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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:30 pm

Ronald J Brown wrote:Whatever is in the "file info" boxes in the score manager (which is what I assume you are talking about) is what will be inserted into the score. It has been this way since the score manager was introduced and it is no different in Finale 25.
Of course. That's what it's for and not what I'm objecting to.
Ronald J Brown wrote:(I just tried putting a title in the "file info" title box, then changing it in the score--and it was changed in the "file info" box--which is exactly the behaviour I expected and desire.)
That is what I'm objecting to. I claim that changing it in a text box should not change the file info itself--the file info should only be editable from the Score Manager. As I said, I wanted to change from title to subtitle in a particular text box, so I highlighted the text and selected Subtitle from the inserts menu to replace it. I went back the Score Manager and now the title and subtitle were the same. Perhaps that doesn't surprise you, but it did me, and I wasted some time before I figured out what was going on. The standard editing paradigm suggests to me that the result would be "replace the title insert with the subtitle insert," not "change the title insert text to the subtitle insert's text."

Maybe they did this because they figured someone would edit the title on page 1 of a template-created document rather than going to the Score Manager. In my case, it was a running title at the top of every page, so that side effect seems bizarre.

But if that's the way you think it should work, why doesn't the same thing apply in an expression?

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:33 pm

In Microsoft Word just now, I inserted my signature (Insert/Signature Line), then highlighted it and inserted the date and time. It replaced the signature with the date and time as expected. I then inserted my signature again afterwards. Had my signature been changed globally to the date and time? Of course not.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:56 pm

It seems to me that this is the intended design, from what I recall when the feature first came out. You could it the info directly in the score. I am pretty sure that design was limited to the score only (text boxes) not expressions. you might check with support in this.

Zuill

P.S.: From the v25.2 manual:

When you begin a new score with the Setup Wizard, Finale adds placeholder text inserts for Title, Subtitle, Composer, and Arranger if these items were not defined (the inserts that appear also depend on the Document Style used). In addition to being standard text on the first page of most scores, these items also constitute important file information shared with the File Info tab of the Score Manager. When undefined, these inserts are gray, indicating they will not print. You can use the Text tool to edit these text inserts like a regular text block. When you do so, you are actually updating the text insert definition. After editing, the text insert will be solid black, indicating it will print. In addition to editing directly in the score, you can also change the text in the File Info to change the information for the following inserts: Title, Composer, Arranger, Copyright, and Description.
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:41 am

Intentional or not, it confused me. I guess to replace the title with the subtitle I needed to delete the title first instead of overwriting it. But that's not how a standard GUI is supposed to work.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:03 am

I guess Subtitle is not in the list of those that can be edited on the page. It was one of the new features in one of the versions. I'll have to look back to see.

Zuill

P.S.: It looks like this was advertised as a new feature in 2012.
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:03 am

That wasn't my issue, though.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:05 am

Aha. I tried replacing the Title with Subtitle, and it did change the Title info. Now I seem to recall some discussion of this in the past. I finally got what you were saying. Quite odd.

Zuill
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:23 am

Thanks for confirming!

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:27 pm

I guess one needs to create a new text item and delete the other. Editing is wonky.

Zuill
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:33 pm

If you delete the contents (Title) first before inserting Subtitle (as opposed to selecting and replacing) that seems to work.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:38 pm

Sweet workaround.

Zuill
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:09 am

I peeked at the MM Finale Forum and happened to see someone raise this issue in the Feature-request a few days ago. No response yet, but it's the weekend.

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ing-titles

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