Smart line questions

[gogreen]

I've created a smart line, "greatly slowing," with dashed lines and a hook. The smart line appears only on the top line of my score (my choice). First, is there a way to include this smart line in the parts without having to include it in each part manually? I know I could have created an expression for "greatly slowing" with dashed lines, which I could set up to appear in each part, but I used the smart line instead so that the length of the dashed lines and hook would vary appropriately with the layout.

Second, should the fermata go above the smart line?

[Michel R E]

I don't think there's any reason to put the dashed line since there's both a double bar at the end and a fermata. it's quite clear that it's slowing until that point.

As for the actual smart line, when I need to insert on in score/parts I usually resort to adding it in the score for all parts and hiding the ones I don't want to appear after first un-linking them in score and parts.

One thing to be careful about: if you are writing a piece for instrument with piano accompaniment, and follow the usual engraving convention of having the instrument part be in a smaller size staff than the piano part, there's a glitch of sorts that makes smart-shape lines act differently between the two staves. With any staff that has been resized, the space between the text and the subsequent line will vary according to the degree of resizing. I've had to resort to making a duplicate set of expressions with smart shape lines for those instances, with the distance between text and line adjusted to make up the difference.

[N Grossingink]

I think your only choice is to copy the smart shape down to all of the score staves and manually hide those you don't want to appear on the score, leaving them on parts only.

Is the dashed line really essential? You maybe could get away with an expression that says "greatly slowing to end". Another way of looking at it is that "greatly slowing" in this context means a constant slowing to the fermata, only 1 1/2 measures.

Dashed line should be above the fermata, in my opinion.

N.

[gogreen]

I chose just "greatly slowing" as an expression. Thanks, Michel and N.

[motet]

The ability to assign smart shapes to score lists is an oft-requested feature.

[gogreen]

The ability to assign smart shapes to score lists is an oft-requested feature.

Definitely. I may have to go request that. I've wanted that for a long time.

[John Ruggero]

When dashed lines follow directions like cresc. or "greatly slowing", there is no vertical ending hook, because there is no exact ending as exists with an 8va and it is awkward to try to impose one, as in this case.

And using the word "slowing" removes the need for a dashed line since you are specifying an ongoing process. You might also write "gradually slowing to the end."

[gogreen]

Thanks, Motet and John, for the additional comments.

Hijacking my own thread, "greatly slowing" is my translation of "assai ritenuto." I decided to have all written expressions and playing directions in my works either in Italian or in English. Does anyone else find mixing two languages inappropriate?

[David Ward]

… … I decided to have all written expressions and playing directions in my works either in Italian or in English. Does anyone else find mixing two languages inappropriate?

German and French scores do it all the time, and I certainly do it freely with English & Italian, plus the very occasional French direction (eg for the harp). I think it's a personal choice, or perhaps sometimes 'house rules'.

[Michel R E]

Hijacking my own thread, "greatly slowing" is my translation of "assai ritenuto."

except "ritenuto" isn't an act of getting slower. it is a sudden holding back of the tempo.
in French it translates to "retenu" (held back).
In other words, it isn't a gradual process.

I think the expression you require is "ritardando" or "rallentando".

you would use "ritenuto" for a short passage that is suddenly slower than the surrounding music.

[gogreen]

Thanks, David and Michel.

[John Ruggero]

I think that the in-score performance directions should be in universally understood terms, the standard Italian ones. Using other languages creates a needless barrier between composer and performer. Non-English, -French, -German speakers may have to get out a dictionary to understand what you want. However, footnotes, prefaces etc. might be in the language of the composer with translations into other languages such as English.

[gogreen]

I think that the in-score performance directions should be in universally understood terms, the standard Italian ones. Using other languages creates a needless barrier between composer and performer. Non-English, -French, -German speakers may have to get out a dictionary to understand what you want. However, footnotes, prefaces etc. might be in the language of the composer with translations into other languages such as English.

Good point, John. Thanks. The piece to which I'm referring is for students--young players. Still, it might be beneficial to use standard Italian directions as a teaching tool. I'll have to think about this. I may have to go with the house style, depending on the publisher.

[David Ward]

I think that the in-score performance directions should be in universally understood terms, the standard Italian ones. Using other languages creates a needless barrier between composer and performer. Non-English, -French, -German speakers may have to get out a dictionary to understand what you want. However, footnotes, prefaces etc. might be in the language of the composer with translations into other languages such as English.

I'm a wee bit inclined to disagree with this.

I think composers are sometimes clearest when they express their directions in whatever way is most idiomatic to them. This sometimes causes less misunderstanding than loosely used musical Italian (particularly when the performers are Italian and understand the directions too idiomatically!). For myself, I use the universal Italian musical terms and abbreviations for dynamics and the like, but when I use Italian terminology for main tempo directions, I am saying something extra by such use. It's worth noting in this context that many Italian opera composers use idiomatic Italian, rather than the (occasionally archaic) musical Italian. One might also have a problem with a term like Allegro for a tempo direction, as something in the accepted Allegro tempo range might be very far from Allegro in mood and feel &c &c &c.

This is multi-faceted, so that different rules and practices suit different music and composers. Wagner or Mahler might not seem to be Wagner or Mahler if many of their directions were not in German, with its subtle (and not so subtle) differences from Italian in 'feel'. Similarly, Debussy without directions in French might almost seem a slightly different composer.

Best, perhaps, not to have too rigid rules for this.

[David Ward]

To expand slightly:

Some of my own scores have libretti and stage directions in English. Rightly or wrongly, I feel that many of the musical directions (far from all, though) feel more fluent if they are also in English. However, sometimes I use an Italian direction that one might associate with late 19th century or 20th century Italian opera. eg I regularly use col canto rather than the more widely used colla voce as it should hint to all involved the type and amount of vocal freedom that is expected.

As for Italian composers' use of Italian, here is just one example. Puccini normally has uniti rather than the musical Italian convention of unis. or unisoni.

I think we should all be allowed our own style for this, as long as it's not obscure or confusing to the expected performers. Unfortunately, in parts of the English speaking world, performers sometimes leave music college with a fairly modest understanding of musical Italian outside the most basic and widely used terms. In other words, it seems one can't win, so one might as well do what suits oneself (within reason).

[BuonTempi]

"Greatly slowing" does sound like a literal translation, rather than idiomatic speech. Would you say "you should be greatly slowing here"...?

[motet]

-

[John Ruggero]

"Greatly slowing" does sound like a literal translation, rather than idiomatic speech. Would you say "you should be greatly slowing here"...?

Great point. "Molto ritardando al fine" and all has been accomplished, including the education of the young.

[Peter Thomsen]

… "Molto ritardando al fine" and all has been accomplished, including the education of the young.

Or "Assài ritardando al fine".

(Assài is an adverb)

[David_]

Does anyone else find mixing two languages inappropriate?

Benjamin Britten does it frequently (see Midsummer Night's Dream for instance - particularly Act 3). If it be good enough for him, why not?

[John Ruggero]

David, I have been "greatly thinking" about your comments and your excellent points. Obviously, composers must do what they think best to get their ideas across, and I agree that if the information to be provided is complex and/or extensive, then one must use one's native tongue.

But looking at it from the point of view of a performer and teacher who sees daily how students ignore unfamiliar terminology, I feel that the standard terms should be used for the standard stuff, at least in concert music aimed at an international audience. The use of other languages, like Beethoven's short-lived foray into German, or several well-known American composer's use of English, seems to me to be of an extra-musical nature and not worth it.