The future of Finale

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NickG
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Post by NickG » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:55 pm

If anyone put any serious time into using Dorico, as I did, you'll understand why Finale sees the writing on the wall. MM needs to do some serious thinking about their future. At the present rate, if Finale continues as is, I don't see a bright future for them. Even in its infancy, Dorico, in its current state is an incredible application. I know that Dorico is missing many core elements at the moment, but I have full confidence in its future development. That's the word, "Confidence". I don't feel confidence with Final. You see it's not just the software but the community of users that need reassurance and confidence. Don't take my word for it, look at the Dorico forum vs the MM forum. I remember asking (not certain which forum) why Finale didn't have a way of selecting notes or measures and placing a hairpin under the selected section in one shot. The answer I got was "The plug-in developers know Finale programing better than the Finale programers". That did not inspire any confidence in me what so ever.
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Bill Reed
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Post by Bill Reed » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:41 pm

After years of anticipation, I found that I didn't like Dorico at all. I don't think there's any writing on the wall.
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Serenity Musician
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Post by Serenity Musician » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:58 pm

I have not had the chance to try out Dorico. I guess the biggest thing for me with trying out any other engraving software is one word: time. It takes "time" to learn and that's just something I don't have a lot of when it comes to learning new engraving software. I've been using Finale since the early 90's when I worked at Hal Leonard. I know Finale. I know what it can do and can't do. I hate the awful Midi editing which hasn't changed probably since it first began. I hate it when Finale crashes on me when all I'm trying to do is create an audio file.

But the bottom line for me is I can't justify paying out $279 for a crossgrade that might take me a couple months to really learn and be comfortable with. If the "learning curve" were only a couple of week, I might consider it. But I can't afford to take that chance.

That's my take.

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NickG
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Post by NickG » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:50 pm

I too had the Finale "Comfort Zone". I've also been using Finale since the early 90s. When I got Dorico's trial version I wasn't impressed. 30 days doesn't give one the time it takes to put it through its paces. I realized that in order to really understand what Dorico was all about, I had to give in and pay the cross grade price and give it an honest chance. I agree, it's a gamble and not everyone can afford to do that. I guess that's why reading about peoples experiences is so important. I was lucky in that I was able to afford taking the risk. I'm glad I did. I took the time to set up short cuts to my liking then went through the task of re-engraving a piano sonata that need correction. I was going to do it in Finale at first but decided that this would be a great test to see what Dorico can do. I have to say that when I first engraved the sonata in Finale, I remember all the time it took me formatting pages, adjusting beams, dynamics, hairpins, ornaments, etc...Well I can say without a doubt that doing it in in Dorico took a fraction of time. I was really impressed. I understand the "Comfort Zone". It's not easy to get out of that comfy chair. But if everyone stayed in their comfort zone, there would be no progress.
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bvstudios
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Post by bvstudios » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:37 pm

I recall when there were a lot of people saying very similar things about some of the bigger DAWs a few years back when Reaper was making it's biggest splash. Cost factor, an active forum of well-informed users and near-constant updates/fixes were the main selling features.

But Reaper wound up being just about the most complicated, `geek-heavy`DAW among the bunch. What it does, it does amazingly well, but the true cost of it is learning to keep up. Personally, I prefer a piece of software that isn`t already four or five releases ahead of me by the time I get through its installation manual!

Dorico seems to be a little like that, whereas Finale (and yes, Sib) are a little more stable from an end-user learning curve standpoint. For now, I am staying right here. It`s a tool for my music, and I prefer to create the music organically, not with one eye in a manual to make sure I am doing it "right".
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:11 pm

Right now, I'm producing a lot of music very quickly and very beautifully in Finale. I've also made some comparison documents of the same music in Dorico and Finale, and I can get results that are about the same. While in Finale I might have to fiddle around with individual notation elements, in Dorico, there's still a lot of fiddling round with settings and panels and making frames and so forth. Dorico does not bring "an end to fiddling". :lol: And Note Entry is really tedious!

I have considerable confidence that further updates to Finale will continue to improve the product. Admittedly, Finale does have one hand tied behind its back in keeping its incredible compatibility with legacy documents, which is unsurpassed in just about any other pro app.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:26 pm

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Last edited by motet on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:04 pm

A well-written manual would help promote a product like Finale, but then there would be no need for support forums. Since the software industry does not employ good technical writers--with a command of English and capacity for logic--forums like this one become increasingly valuable.

ttw
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Post by ttw » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:15 pm

There's always the example of Igor to keep startups on their toes.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:57 pm

I tried Igor Engraver for a while before buying Finale (waste of time: ugly, and it crashed a lot) but don't know its story, if you'd care to elaborate. For a decade afterwards it still had a website with pictures of its edgy black-clad developers pretending it was a going thing--but never any updates--but it seems to have finally disappeared.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:21 pm

I take it back--not entirely!

http://noteheads.se/Welcome.html

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:29 pm

The main investor in starting Igor Engraver was one of the members of the Swedish pop group "ABBA", if I recall correctly.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:50 pm

I think you're right.

I looked on the Wayback Machine and noteheads.com was identical from 2004 to 2012 touting Igor Engraver 1.7. It then disappeared but resurfaced as noteheads.se in 2015 and has been the same since ("we are currently working on an updated version of Igor Engraver"). I suppose it's possible it's not vaporware, but it has been at least 12 years since there was a release.

bvstudios
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Post by bvstudios » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:01 am

I wonder if anyone's still monitoring that "info at " email. Maybe we should all enquire and see...?
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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:19 pm

NickG wrote:If anyone put any serious time into using Dorico, as I did, you'll understand why Finale sees the writing on the wall...
What writing on what wall?

Migawd, Dorico's worse than MuseScore, a feat I didn't think possible before I downloaded the demo. Perfect for the amateur-hobbyist engraver, something it shares with LilyPad, useless for the working musician.

I'll go back to hand written manuscript before I use an overly-complicated, under-performing mess like Dorico. Considering that I do this one-handed, literally — and it's the wrong hand... seriously, I'm left handed and my left arm is crippled from a stroke.
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Tritonus
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Post by Tritonus » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:53 am

After spending some time, doing some research. Dorico is what I would consider a "beta-version". For $299 you can be a beta-tester. No thanks.
I will let others do the QC.

Other issues I see is
1.) It does not integrate with Cubase.
2.) Integrating VST's and playback may or may not be a problem.
3.) Not all articulations are available.

I will be keeping an eye on Dorico. It is good news for consumers because of the competition.

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