Playback: "Wet/Dry" sound levels

[Gareth Green]

In earlier versions of Finale supporting the Garritan Ambience plug-in, when using the basic Garriton for Finale sounds it was possible to improve the sound quality and boost playback levels by adjusting the "wet" and "dry" sound levels for each preset ambience. In particular in many instances the "dry" level was set very low by default, and raising it by around 6db resulted in a vast improvement.

In Fin25 it no longer seems it is possible to do this. Am I missing something?

[gogreen]

Try the Convolution reverb. In VST Banks & Effects, click on a bank in which your instruments are loaded. Then highlight each instrument and go to its controls. There you can adjust the equalizer, stereo stage, and other instrument controls. My reverb settings are the most pleasing, to my ears, at least, when I set them at about the 1 or 2 o'clock position. The same controls do not appear to be available for the Finale Default Bank sounds. I use mainly GPO5 and COMB2.

[Gareth Green]

Thanks, but I'm not finding what you describe. Seems like GIFF behave differently. I can find the Convolution Reverb., but I'm not able to highlight individual instruments.

[Gareth Green]

I'm either misunderstanding, or I'm in a completely different place. I select the instrument in the aria player, then select "Controls" and nothing happens. If I click on the instrument while I'm in "Controls", all I get are options to Empty, Import or Reload, or select a new instrument. There are dials for various options, but nothing like the Wet/Dry balance options we used to have in Garritan Ambiance.
This just seems to be another example of MM's idea of "progress" ...

[ttw]

I don't see the Wet vs Dry either; those were the primary controls I used to use. Now I mostly use the Convolution Reverb. This has four controls, Level, Decay Rate, Size, Predelay. I don't know exactly how these work (I will experiment later.)

[zuill]

I really don't see anything there for wet or dry adjustment. However, the mixer has a Send dial. That tells how much of the signal gets sent to the effects, which is basically the reverb.

Zuill

[Gareth Green]

"Crude" it may have been, but boosting the "Dry" level was the only really effective way of getting a useable volume out of the playback facility.
So how do we do it now?

[zuill]

Wet means with reverb, dry means without. The normal volume level adjusts the amount of basic signal, which is dry. The Send knob determines how much of the dry signal is sent to the reverb. After it goes through the reverb processing, that sound is now wet.

As far as boosting the dry sound to get more volume, I do miss that. But that was only a bandaid to a bigger problem in that the samples are too soft to start with. It's too bad when workarounds are needed to make up for deficiencies.

Zuill

[gogreen]

As far as boosting the dry sound to get more volume, I do miss that. But that was only a bandaid to a bigger problem in that the samples are too soft to start with. It's too bad when workarounds are needed to make up for deficiencies.

Indeed! Here are some of the adjustments I routinely make in Finale (without a DAW) to get the HP playback right with samples that are so inconsistent:

* Regardless of the playback "style," I use the MIDI tool to shorten most note durations by anywhere from 80% to 95%--most often, 90%. If I don't do this, I get legato mush--a very unrealistic sound. I set up a script for this setting.
* To adjust balance, I've created an alternate set of dynamics that vary most often three dynamic levels both louder and softer. In this way, the score and parts have the appropriate dynamics, but the playback balance is better. In Finale, dynamics are separated by 13 velocity units. So, for example, mezzo forte defaults to 75 velocity units. I've created additional mezzo fortes for velocities of 62, 49, 88, and 102.
* I often add these hidden dynamics to further adjust balance.
* To bring out a part (make it louder), I sometimes lower or turn off an instrument's stereo stage percentage.
* I most often use convolution reverb's modern symphonic concert hall preset with send dials at around the 2 o'clock position. Reverb has its own evening-out characteristics, although slight.
* To blend instruments better in some places I sometimes set an instrument's key velocity (MIDI tool) lower to soften its attack. The default is 64. I often set the key velocity to 45.
* To balance instruments in larger ensembles, I create my own sections using combinations of solo, player, and group instruments.
* By itself, trumpet and French horn playback with GPO5, GPO4, and COMB2 instruments (groups, solo, and player) is harshly strident. I don't know why. To mellow the sound, I lower the EQ high setting to as much of -9 dB. To my ear, the sound is much more realistic and pleasing.
* Because some instruments in Garritan libraries are far too loud and some are far too soft,I often adjust an instrument's overall volume in the score manager. For instance, bass clarinet samples in GPO4, GPO5, and COMB2, both solo and player, are way too blaringly loud and blatty. The default volume for instruments is 101. I often set bass clarinet staffs to play back at 50-60.
* To bring out or soften an instrument in various places, I sometimes place an additional instrument in a different layer, or even a different Aria instance, and adjust its characteristics. I'll sometimes set up a separate Aria instance or layer for crash cymbals in GPO5 Basic Orchestra Percussion, for instance, and make the volume 125. This setting creates a crash cymbals sound that actually sounds like a CRASH cymbals sound.

[Gareth Green]

... solo clarinets can still stand out clearly above a full brass section--a bit unrealistic at ff, I would think.

[OFF-TOPIC] Oddly enough, I have a "Special Edition" re-issue CD set of the original "Star Wars" sound track. On it there are some "bonus tracks", which contain five "out-take" recordings of the Main Title. One of them has a passage where the mics on the clarinets have been turned up to an unrealistic level, and they do indeed over-ride an entire brass section playing 'ff''. Unrealistic, but quite entertaining ...

[Gareth Green]

Thanks to everyone for all the input; I can see I'm going to have to take a bit more time experimenting with this. Even if I can get it to work, it still seems a lot more 'faff' than moving one slider ...

[oldmkvi]

I use the Wet/Dry setting in the Conv Reverb, works just like the Garritan Ambience did for me.
I set it Max Dry, all the way to the left.
I have no balance problems using regular Dynamic Expressions.
Be sure to choose the Room Size.
Playback in F25 at 24/96 is the best so far.
I used an outboard DAC.

[Gareth Green]

I use the Wet/Dry setting in the Conv Reverb, works just like the Garritan Ambience did for me.
I set it Max Dry, all the way to the left.

So, can you provide idiot-proof instructions on how to get there, please? I can't find it.

[oldmkvi]

It's under Midi Audio/Audio Units Banks and Effects.
Choose AU Matrix Reverb ( NOT Convolution!) from the Drop-Down List
Wet/Dry Mix is on top, I slide it over to the left all the way.
I have to re-choose the Room Size every time, or it reverts to Small Room.

[oldmkvi]

My post says it was done on Tues March 7.
It's Monday Mar 6, around 4 pm PST.
Whaaa?

GMT?

[ttw]

I'm on windows 10 and I don't get AU Matrix Reverb at all; I just get ambiance or convolution. I'm using Aria player 64 bit (32 bit seems to be the same.) I can use both the convolution and ambiance reverb together. On F2014.5 I could use convolution and ambiance and Garritan though that often gave strange results/

[oldmkvi]

I don't get either ambience or convolution on Mac, F25.2, just AU Matrix Reverb.
I'm surprised they aren't the same for windows and mac.

[Gareth Green]

I'm also on Win10; no sign of AU Matrix ...

[oldmkvi]

So on Windows there is no MIDI/Audio Drop Down Menu, at the top of the page?
Audio Units Banks and Effects is the one I click on, Aria Player and Master Effects are there, AU Matrix Reverb is on the Master Effects List, on Mac.

[oldmkvi]

Thanks.
I'm sorry there's no way to access the Wet/Dry Settings on Windows, it's so useful on Mac, and I see they are missing it. (In the Philosophical Sense,
not just literally!)