Is there a "sub. P" in Finale?

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gogreen
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Post by gogreen » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:42 am

Is there? I don't see it in Maestro family fonts, Bach font (not in Finale), and Engraver fonts. I know I can just create it, but I hate to think I missed it.
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Serenity Musician
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Post by Serenity Musician » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:54 am

Hey Art!

I haven't been on here for a while. Well, I guess I haven't contributed anything for a bit. I found a subito P in the Dynamics section in Expression. If you can't find it I can send it to you. I tried to attach the library file here, but it won't let me. PM me and I can send you my email address and send you the library I have with it.

Cheers!

Gary
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gogreen
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Post by gogreen » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:35 am

I saw that. What font is that, and what is its Unicode number?
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:44 am

In the Maestro Default file, the word subito is Times New Roman 12 Italic. the p is Maestro 24 plain.

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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:25 am

Not even Bravura has "subito" or "sub." as an individual font glyph. But as you say yourself, it's easy enough to create an expression, if it's not in your Styles/templates.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:33 am

I'd suggest using p sub. rather than sub. p.

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Post by gogreen » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:15 pm

I'd suggest using p sub. rather than sub. p.
Why? Because it aligns better with notes and is therefore clearer to conductors and players? Is it an Italian grammar concern? Both?

Thanks, N Grossingink, BuonTempi, Zuill, and Gary.

I apologize for my backward approach to my concern. I had placed "sub. p" in a score after a forte section, and Finale didn't play back the "sub. p," so my thought was to enter "p," which would play back, hide that dynamic, and then create a shape expression for "sub. p," which would trick HP. That's why I wanted to find the font entry and unicode number for "sub. p." The real problem is "sub. p" not playing back. :roll:
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:51 pm

gogreen wrote:
I'd suggest using p sub. rather than sub. p.
Why? Because it aligns better with notes and is therefore clearer to conductors and players? Is it an Italian grammar concern? Both?
Actually, it's the practice of one of my clients. I see the sense in it and agree wholeheartedly.

The dynamic marks themselves should appear under the notes that they apply to. If you're reading the dynamic marks accurately, there should be no reason to use subito. But yes, it does add a sense of importance and I always use it when called for. Having sub. trail the dynamic mark gets it out of the way. Scores in particular get very messy if the sub. or subito appears before the dynamic when the dynamic appears on beat 1 - it's hanging in the preceding measure.

By the way, Elaine Gould (page 107) says sub. usually follows the dynamic mark, but may precede it if there is a rest in that location. Makes a lot of sense.

N.
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Post by MikeHalloran » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:15 pm

N Grossingink wrote:...
By the way, Elaine Gould (page 107) says sub. usually follows the dynamic mark, but may precede it if there is a rest in that location. Makes a lot of sense.
Indeed it does.
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Post by zuill » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Regarding the issue of playback, Finale should behave as any other Expression. The default subito p I referred to earlier has the same playback velocity setting as the stock p, so it should play back properly. If your custom sub. p or p sub. is created the same way, playback should work.

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Post by gogreen » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:10 pm

Regarding the issue of playback, Finale should behave as any other Expression. The default subito p I referred to earlier has the same playback velocity setting as the stock p, so it should play back properly. If your custom sub. p or p sub. is created the same way, playback should work.
Yeah. Same velocity setting as "p" (49), but it's just not playing back. I tried duplicating the stock "p," adding a "sub." in front of it (per N Grossingink), and lowering the velocity to 36 for even more dynamic contrast, but that didn't change anything, either. Any suggestions?
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Post by zuill » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:30 pm

I have found that certain sound sets don't respond the same way to dynamics. Also, certain instruments respond differently to dynamics. So, without having all that information, we might be at a loss to suggest a solution.

Zuill

P.S.: I just ran a quick test. Garritan piano didn't do it when using a blank staff and choosing the Steinway piano. Orchestral Trumpet did, however. Smart Music softsynth piano also played the subito piano. So, I guess it's iffy.

P.P.S.: Subito piano does work on a Garritan Piano staff set up as such, as opposed to a blank staff with the Steinway piano chosen. Go figure. I have complained for years about the frivolous determinations in HP. This is a perfect example.
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Post by gogreen » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:42 pm

I have found that certain sound sets don't respond the same way to dynamics. Also, certain instruments respond differently to dynamics.
Just what I didn't want to hear. :(

Any suggestions on yet another workaround?
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Post by motet » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:16 am

If the built-in p works for you, use that and add the subito before or after with a separate expression.

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Post by gogreen » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:27 pm

If the built-in p works for you, use that and add the subito before or after with a separate expression.
Thanks, Motet. I did something like that. I copied "P" and then added "sub." after it, and that seems to work. The problem, as Zuill suggested, is that it works terribly unevenly. When some staffs get to the P sub., they practically disappear, while in others, a dynamic difference is barely discernible. I suppose now I have to even things out with hidden dynamics. :roll:
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Post by motet » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:56 pm

I'm suggesting that subito be a separate expression you place before or after the reliable, unaltered p expression.
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gogreen
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Post by gogreen » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm suggesting that subito be a separate expression you place before or after the reliable, unaltered p expression.
Yup. That works, too. Thanks!
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