swing eighths question

[Rebecca Oswald]

I'm running Finale 2014d on a Mac.

I'm transcribing a jazz-reminiscent piano arrangement that uses swung eighths throughout. In 4/4 meter, sometimes the right hand plays all three eighth notes of a swing-implied triplet, while the left hand plays just the swung eighths, in other words, the 1st and 3rd eighths of the implied triplet. Whenever this occurs, the LH and RH final eighth notes don't align vertically, though they should be played at the same time. The score is aimed at non-jazz pianists, so I think vertical alignment of the swung LH eighths with the RH triplet would be desirable in this case.

As I'm not concerned with playback, I found an alignment solution: I entered a rest as the middle character of a triplet, hid the rest, and also hid the "3" of the triplet. The rhythmic alignment now works.

Is there a plugin that will turn a pair of straight eighths into rhythmically-aligned swung eighths? It would save me some time. If there isn't such a plugin, I will send a feature request to MM.

Rebecca

[miker]

You could enter your desired configuration once, and copy it as needed. Then, use the repitch tool to change the notes.

[motet]

What about skipping the swing since it's for non-jazz pianists and just writing quarter+eighth? I have a feeling swing aligned with triplets might be confusing. You can hide the triplet bracket and number after the first few measures.

[Rebecca Oswald]

Miker — Yes, that is the way to go.

Motet — I considered your quarter-eighth solution. One would want to see either swing eighths or your quarter-eighth idea consistently throughout the whole song, and I think quarter-eighths are harder to read than swing eighths. The rhythmic vertical mismatch in question only occurs a few times in the song; the rest of the song has normal swing eighths. I'm interested to find out how jazz publishers deal with this. Any leads?

Rebecca

[BuonTempi]

As you're still using 2014, does "JW Rhythm & Metre" offer anything?

(Any reason you're not using the .5 update?)

[N Grossingink]

I have a fair amount of experience copying or engraving jazz piano parts for publication, but not being a competent pianist, I am far from an expert on the matter and am usually required to follow what the arranger or editor has indicated. Additionally, if you do a Google search for "Jazz Piano Solos" and choose to look at "images", you'll see a lot of pages of engraved jazz piano arrangements. One thing you can take away from this is that jazz piano notation doesn't seem to be standardized to a great degree - there seem to be variances in the way a lot of notation is handled.

Rebecca, so far as your triplet eighth versus two eighth scenario, this is how I'd do it:

√ If the piece is a moderate Swing tempo and your scenario occurs within a chorus, I'd let the triplet versus two eighths stand.
√ If the piece is a ballad or in freer tempo, with less active note values, particularly at a cadence or end of phrase, I'd subdivide the 2 eighths into a triplet figure, to match the subdivision of the other hand.

It might be nice to see a screenshot of a few measures where the figure appears in your arrangement.

N.

[zuill]

I've not seen any concern by publishers as to aligning the straight 8ths in one hand to accommodate a triplet in the other. In Baroque use, a triplet in one hand against a dotted eighth-16th in the other aligns the performance of the 16th with the last note of the triplet, even though they don't align properly if the notation is done correctly.

The point I am making is that a person should know that the notes are to be played together, even if they don't line up.

2 options I would use if necessary:

1. Just write out the quarter-8th triplet when the other hand is playing triplets. This will be understood and not hard to read since it is rarely needed, according to your first post.

2. Use a line to visually connect the notes that need to line up to aid the reader in knowing that the notes are to be played together.

Having said all this, I don't think it is necessary to do anything. the reader should know what to do. If a written explanation at the beginning is needed as instruction, then do that. Otherwise, it should be understood.

Zuill

[Rebecca Oswald]

Apparently I've been trying to solve a problem that wasn't one in the first place. (It's not the first time I've been guilty of overthinking something.) Your responses give me several acceptable options for notating this rhythmic figure. I am confident that one of them will look right in the context of the completed score. Thanks, everyone.

Rebecca