<RESOLVED> How to enter triplet rest + quarter note

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Luka Puka
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Post by Luka Puka » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:06 am

I'm writing a swing piece with syncopated rhythms. I need to know how to make a triplet rest with a quarter note after it that is two triplets long.

(1st triplet -- 2nd -- 3rd triplet beat)
(eighth rest - note - note continued)

I know how to input a quarter note followed by a triplet eighth using the triplet tool, but not vice versa.

Using full Finale 25, Windows.
Last edited by Luka Puka on Tue May 23, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:17 am

I'm a bit confused by the wording of the request. I can't imagine exactly what you want.

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 pm

This?
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:35 pm

Okay. I just couldn't figure that out from the description. That makes sense now that I re-read the original post.

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Luka Puka
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Post by Luka Puka » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Yes, that is what I am trying to input in the picture.
How exactly do you do that?

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:04 pm

There are a number of ways. My method uses Simple Entry and the QWERTY keyboard with numberpad.

4 to select eighth note, 0 to enter it as a rest.
ALT-9 to enter tuplet definition box, set as 3 eighth notes in the space of 2 eighth notes. (If this is already set as the default, all you need to do is tap the 9 key.)
5 to select quarter note, enter the note on the QWERTY keyboard. (A-G)
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:44 pm

In Speedy....
Ctrl+3, enter three eight note B's. Backspace the first one to make it a rest, delete the middle one and press 5 on the key pad to make the last one a quarter.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:17 pm

That's unnecessarily contrived. Speedy entry: Ctrl-3, enter an eight rest, then a quarter note.

(Some people use the backup and replace method for a quarter+eight triplet, since the first note input after Ctrl-3 determines the type of triplet. But even in that case, Ctrl-1 followed by Enter will set up an eighth-note triplet, and you can then enter the quarter and eighth without any replacing.)

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:23 pm

Unfortunately, if using Simple, you still have to deal with the placeholder rests, so there is an extra step deleting one of them. Too bad.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:28 pm

It's interesting that people have so many ways of entering tuplets in Finale. On Facebook recently, in answer to how to enter a tuplet at the end of a measure, people were suggesting things like temporarily changing the time signature, or entering it in the next measure and then copying, or turning off check for extra notes and switching to the separate triplet tool. Whatever works, I guess, but Ctrl-# in Speedy or Alt-Keypad9 in Simple work perfectly. (The only situation I can think of would be in Simple entry where the first note of the tuplet somehow wouldn't fit in the measure before typing Alt-9, but that would be something very odd--in fact, I can't think of an example that wouldn't be poor notation.)

Somehow the standard ways are non-obvious and people have trouble with them. Even though I know them, I do find tuplets to be a big slowdown in note entry. I wonder if there is a better UI design.

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:40 pm

zuill wrote:Unfortunately, if using Simple, you still have to deal with the placeholder rests, so there is an extra step deleting one of them. Too bad.

Zuill
Not in any uncomplicated entry, that I've found. Sometimes, with 5, 6, or 7-lets there might be a couple of holdovers to delete, but I've never had them in "normal" music.
Where have you found them?
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:09 pm

Looks like in the present case, for MIDI or QWERTY entry, entering the quarter note will remove both eighth rests. Seems like this should always work, even with 5, 6, or 7-lets. But mouse entry strangely doesn't have this feature, seems.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:28 am

"That's unnecessarily contrived."

Perhaps but it always works. For whatever reason in this experiment if you wanted the quarter rest first and the eight note after "Speedy entry: Ctrl-3, enter an quarter rest, then a eight note." doesn't work.
Last edited by ebiggs1 on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:53 am

ebiggs1 wrote:… For whatever reason in this experiment if you wanted the quarter rest first and the either note after "Speedy entry: Ctrl-3, enter an quarter rest, then a eight note." doesn't work.
It does not work because the triplet definition is wrong:
{Ctrl-3, enter a quarter} defines a triplet of {3 Quarters in the space of 2 Quarters}.
But the triplet should be {3 Eighths in the space of 2 Eighths}.

Instead, use this entry string:
Ctrl-1 (opens the Tuplet Definition which defaults to 3 Eighths in the space of 2 Eighths)
Enter or Return (OK!)
5 (enters the Quarter)
4 (enters the Eighth)
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:20 am

I am sure there are several ways to do this. As Finale is famous for that ! But my way nothing needs to be changed. It works. Counting mouse clicks maybe there is a shorter way, maybe not.
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:51 pm

We were discussing how to enter an eighth rest plus a quarter note, not the other way around. When you type Ctrl-3, it uses the next thing you enter to determine the duration of the triplet members, so there's no mystery why that doesn't work in the other situation.

Indeed, use whatever works for you, though. I was just trying to give the O.P. the straight-forward way.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:13 pm

"I was just trying to give the O.P. the straight-forward way."

So was I, except my way works either way if so desired. Finale has always had many work arounds so this isn't surprising to see different folks doing it differently.
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Luka Puka
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Post by Luka Puka » Tue May 23, 2017 11:46 pm

Thanks, everybody, for your solutions. This is a late reply, but I've been using the method as follows:

1. In Speedy Entry: Press Ctrl+3
2. Press 4 to enter triplet eighth rest
3. Press 5 to enter two-triplet-eighth-long quarter rest

And then I use the rests as placeholders for whatever note I want to enter. Works perfectly.

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