Pedal problem

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Juli29
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Post by Juli29 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:53 pm

Hello
I've been working on a piano score and everything was OK. I know how to use Pedal marks (Articulation --> P ; --> I ) but I've had a problem. What I wanted to do is placeing the release and the pedal mark under the same note, but when I play the song it doesn't hold the sounds.
Does anyone know how to solve it?

Thank you!

P.S: The previous note is long so, if I place de release mark under it, it doesn't sound great. :(


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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:23 pm

We might need to see the file, as many factors can be at play. We wouldn't know what to suggest as we would be guessing.

Zuill
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Juli29
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Post by Juli29 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:32 pm

As you can see in the picture, both (release and Pedal) are placed under the F.

As I said yesterday, the problem is that the Pedal after the release does not work (it does not hold the sound while playing the score).
Any idea of what to do?

Thank you!
Attachments
problema-pedal-finale.PNG
problema-pedal-finale.PNG (66.64 KiB) Viewed 6662 times

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:40 pm

Juli29,

You have attached a graphic file (.PNG), not a Finale document (.MUSX).

We need you to attach an actual (small) Finale 2014 (sample) document, so that we can examine the document’s playback.

(You are using Finale 2014, right?)
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:52 pm

The pedal release mark should be placed at the very end of the preceding measure (after the high F), and the Ped. under the low "F". That is correct notation - the pianist will know what to do. Whether or not that solves your playback problem I don't know, but it's worth trying. What you have done is incorrect.

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Juli29
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Post by Juli29 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:56 pm

Here it is
Attachments
pedal-problem.musx
(85.54 KiB) Downloaded 183 times

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:16 am

If one wants overlapping pedal, then the asterisk is not necessary. Just put another Ped.

If you need the asterisk, it will be more easily accomplished with the SmartShape Tool. If you want the asterisk to be under the note and the Ped after, that can be accomplished easily.

Zuill
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:47 am

zuill wrote:If one wants overlapping pedal, then the asterisk is not necessary. Just put another Ped.
That is an excellent system for notation and the best solution to the OP's problem, but unfortunately in my experience Finale doesn't understand it and doesn't actually release the preceding pedal on playback. I will make this a feature request at MM.

Actually what the OP wrote is not incorrect and is an older way of writing overlapping pedal. However, the Ped. needs to be under the bass note F if the bass note is intended to be caught in the new pedal.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:05 pm

I understand about the notation as being acceptable. I suppose one could get the proper playback by still using the asterisk, but hiding it to get Finale to do things properly. With the SmartShape option, one can move the items visually without losing the attachment to the proper note. That's why I suggested that approach, as it seems to work for playback as well.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:43 pm

You cannot have both a "pedal on" and a "pedal off" marking on the same note. These articulations/expressions carry MIDI information.
How exactly do you want Finale to handle them on the same note? On and Off at the same time.
This is a computer, you have to think logically with it.
The computer cannot know what to do if it is told to both apply AND remove an effect simultaneously.

Now, for playback, I find that putting the pedal down marking one note LATE works best. Since Finale, when playing legato, makes a tiny overlap of note lengths, placing the pedal ON marking under the C will also capture the preceding F.

It might be of note that I have never seen a score with both pedal on and off under the same note, and have been playing the piano for 50 years.
The normal notation for what you have there would be to have the pedal off marking at the very end of the preceding measure, then the pedal on marking on the F.

If the playback is incorrect for you, then you can place the Ped Off marking on the F and pull it back to VISUALLY appear at the end of the preceding measure. Then place the Ped On marking on the C and pull that one back so that it is visually under the F.
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Mon May 01, 2017 3:05 am

Michel R E wrote:It might be of note that I have never seen a score with both pedal on and off under the same note, and have been playing the piano for 50 years.
The normal notation for what you have there would be to have the pedal off marking at the very end of the preceding measure, then the pedal on marking on the F.
Actually, we are in complete agreement, Michel. If the OP positions the Ped. under the F, the asterisk will come at the end of the previous measure as is normal. If the OP was trying to place the asterisk and the Ped. simultaneously, that is certainly unheard of and totally incorrect. But it was not clear to me that he was trying to do that, but simply trying to notate overlapping pedal.

To the OP: One thing: IMO it is a good idea to position the asterisk at the very end of the previous measure as close to the Ped. as possible. Chopin, for example, was often lax about the way he positioned such a pedal termination and this has lead to confusion as to when he wants overlapping pedal and when he wants a clean separation. This problem is overcome by omitting the asterisk to show overlapped pedal as mentioned by Zuill, and thus the system I prefer.
Pedal indications.jpg
Pedal indications.jpg (26.13 KiB) Viewed 6562 times
P.S. Congratulations on your 50 years spent at the piano, Michel. I've been playing for 62 years and still love every minute of it!
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