Smart shapes not so very smart

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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Fri May 12, 2017 10:29 am

First thing I wanted to do when I had just booted Finale was to draw a slur. Couldn't do it. I got a "P.M.----" instead. No matter what smart (oh the irony) shape I selected: all I could draw was a palm mute. I quit Finale and opened it again: same result. In the end I had to restart the entire system to finally be able to draw a slur.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri May 12, 2017 10:55 am

That sounds like the familiar “Virtually Stuck Key Syndrome”.

If you examine the smart shape metatools, then you will find that the stuck key is exactly the trigger key for the palm mute.

As you have found out, a reboot will fix the stuck key.
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miker
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Post by miker » Fri May 12, 2017 12:58 pm

I have found that logging out/back in works as well, and is faster than a reboot.
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Sat May 13, 2017 10:06 am

What key could possibly be stuck? As far as I can tell there is no key associated with the palm mute shape.
Wouldn't a 'stuck key' also affect any other running application? But it doesn't. Is it then 'virtually stuck' only within Finale? Perhaps related to the sometimes hanging notes in playback? Although the latter only requires closing and reopening the document to get rid of the problem.

A quick Google learns that it is a known problem (known to MakeMusic) and a quite old one (at least 2006!) at that. Is this ever going to be fixed or is it another one of those quirks we will 'have to learn to live with'?

Logging out and back in is most certainly faster than a full restart. Thanks for the tip, miker!
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat May 13, 2017 1:14 pm

Jay Emmes wrote:What key could possibly be stuck? As far as I can tell, there is no key associated with the palm mute shape …
Smart Shape metatools are document specific (not program specific).

In Other Words:
To find out whether there is a key associated with the palm mute shape, you must open the document with the problem.

A stuck key is ‘virtually stuck’ in all Finale’s tools.
If you e. g. have assigned the letter P key to trigger the expression ‘pizz.’ - and also to trigger the articulation ‘Ped’, then you will “automatically” get ‘pizz.’ in the Expression Tool, and ‘Ped’ in the Articulation Tool.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat May 13, 2017 1:24 pm

In the default document, the Palm Mute uses the M key as a metatool. If there was a virtual stuck key happening with the M key, in the Expression Tool, you would automatically get a rehearsal letter, in the default document.

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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Sun May 14, 2017 12:35 pm

I haven't assigned any shortcuts, so it will have been the letter M that supposedly was stuck.

If this problem is document specific, does that mean this is going to happen again in this document?

When this happened this particular document was 3 (three!) days old and already prone to some kind of corruption?

Without changing anything in the document and by restarting the system, the problem is gone. Doesn't that point towards a problem with the application, rather than a problem with the document? I'm inclined to think that the problem is application specific, because all other applications functioned flawlessly when the M-key was stuck in Finale; besides, I have never encountered anything alike in any other application.
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Sun May 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Yes, it's a bug in the application, not the document. I've only had it once, quite recently, in all the time I've used Finale; others get it with tedious regularity.

Its cause has not yet been pinpointed.

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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun May 14, 2017 2:09 pm

Jay Emmes wrote:… If this problem is document specific, does that mean this is going to happen again in this document? …
No, the metatool is document specific.

The “Virtual Stcuk Key” syndrome is system specific (not program specific) which is why you can get rid of it by logging out, and logging in again (i. e. rebooting is not necessary).
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Sun May 14, 2017 10:13 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:No, the metatool is document specific.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood.

Such a shame MakeMusic doesn't make more of an effort to eliminate such very old bugs, though.
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Post by Michel R E » Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Jay Emmes wrote:
Peter Thomsen wrote:No, the metatool is document specific.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood.

Such a shame MakeMusic doesn't make more of an effort to eliminate such very old bugs, though.
MakeMusic goes to GREAT effort to fix bugs, the problem is that SOME bugs, like this one, are difficult to replicate. Notice that some users get it regularly, while others never, or almost never get it.

Don't start blaming MM.
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motet
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Post by motet » Sun May 14, 2017 11:16 pm

Some easy-to-reproduce bugs have endured for years.

If you know it's the M key that's stuck, for example, does it work to press and release M? Then the Mac OS or Finale or whatever's responsible will get the "M up" message. This works on Windows.

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Post by miker » Mon May 15, 2017 12:30 am

But not on Mac, to the best of my knowledge. A log out/log in or restart is necessary.
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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Mon May 15, 2017 1:18 am

motet wrote:Some easy-to-reproduce bugs have endured for years.

If you know it's the M key that's stuck, for example, does it work to press and release M? Then the Mac OS or Finale or whatever's responsible will get the "M up" message. This works on Windows.
But the OP is not on Windows.

I have never experienced this in Finale but have seen such things in other software. It could be a conflict with another app or old code from a long-dead application that is still installed.

If you can reproduce this problem, open Console and see what is going on with your system at the moment it occurs. Look for something try to load but can't or something that shouldn't load but does.
Last edited by MikeHalloran on Mon May 15, 2017 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon May 15, 2017 1:22 am

I know the O.P. is not on Windows. Just a thought. miker reports that it doesn't help, alas.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Mon May 15, 2017 9:42 am

When I've had the virtual stuck key (a few times, but rarely), I've cured it by a rapid quasi-tremolo striking of the offending key while in a Finale tool which displays the phenomenon. First it is necessary to identify the offending key, and it is evident that this quasi-tremolo may not effect a cure in all cases.
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Mon May 15, 2017 10:41 pm

Michel R E wrote:MakeMusic goes to GREAT effort to fix bugs […] Don't start blaming MM.
I can confirm nor deny that MakeMusic's effort to fix bugs is "great", of course, since I can't have a peek inside their kitchen.
If there is a question of 'blame' (not saying that there is, but should there be one) it can, however, only be directed at MakeMusic, since they are the only ones who can address bugs in Finale.
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Mon May 15, 2017 10:48 pm

David Ward wrote:When I've had the virtual stuck key (a few times, but rarely), I've cured it by a rapid quasi-tremolo striking of the offending key while in a Finale tool which displays the phenomenon. First it is necessary to identify the offending key, and it is evident that this quasi-tremolo may not effect a cure in all cases.
Worth trying, of course, but how do I find what the offending key is? In my case the problem was a persistent palm mute smart shape, which apparently is linked to the 'M' key, but I can't find that link anywhere.
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Post by Vaughan » Fri May 19, 2017 11:26 am

I've very occasionally had this problem and what seems to work for me is going to a program like Word or Pages and simply typing something. This seems to 'reset' the stuck key and Finale will then function normally. If the particular instance of the problem is more serious, I'll see it happen in the other program, as well, and then a logout/restart will be necessary. I'd say, try typing all the keys in a word processor first.
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motet
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Post by motet » Fri May 19, 2017 4:00 pm

Jay wrote:I can't find that link anywhere...
If you mean in the manual, there's an appendix of key mappings.

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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Sat May 20, 2017 12:58 pm

Thanks all! Hesitate to say it, but hope to never need any of your help and advise. :P
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Post by hmcrecluse » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:59 am

I currently ran into the same problem and found this article online. I'm using 2014.5 on my Mac. Restarting the program didn't work. However I found the solution since it's about "stuck key" - I simply click the smart shape metatool with the key that stuck, then it's solved.

This is a weird situation but the same thing happens all the time, including midi keys for speedy entry. What I figured out was just simply enter that key again.

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Post by threni » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:58 pm

One user tells us here (yes, tells us , it is not a suggestion, it is an imperative) not to "blame" Finale. Who's blaming them, exactly? And who, then, is ultimately responsible for this irregularity, if not the makers of the software?

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:52 pm

You're posting to a 2-1/2-year-old thread. MM is certainly not blameless when it comes to bugs, but one only has to glance at the threads on this site to see people crying wolf all the time claiming Finale is broken when in fact there's something they're not understanding. And the Macintosh seems to be a moving target, with OS upgrades breaking older versions of Finale.

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