Smart shapes not so very smart
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Jay Emmes
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:29 pm
- Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
- Operating System: Mac
First thing I wanted to do when I had just booted Finale was to draw a slur. Couldn't do it. I got a "P.M.----" instead. No matter what smart (oh the irony) shape I selected: all I could draw was a palm mute. I quit Finale and opened it again: same result. In the end I had to restart the entire system to finally be able to draw a slur.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
- Peter Thomsen
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- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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That sounds like the familiar “Virtually Stuck Key Syndrome”.
If you examine the smart shape metatools, then you will find that the stuck key is exactly the trigger key for the palm mute.
As you have found out, a reboot will fix the stuck key.
If you examine the smart shape metatools, then you will find that the stuck key is exactly the trigger key for the palm mute.
As you have found out, a reboot will fix the stuck key.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Jay Emmes
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- Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
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What key could possibly be stuck? As far as I can tell there is no key associated with the palm mute shape.
Wouldn't a 'stuck key' also affect any other running application? But it doesn't. Is it then 'virtually stuck' only within Finale? Perhaps related to the sometimes hanging notes in playback? Although the latter only requires closing and reopening the document to get rid of the problem.
A quick Google learns that it is a known problem (known to MakeMusic) and a quite old one (at least 2006!) at that. Is this ever going to be fixed or is it another one of those quirks we will 'have to learn to live with'?
Logging out and back in is most certainly faster than a full restart. Thanks for the tip, miker!
Wouldn't a 'stuck key' also affect any other running application? But it doesn't. Is it then 'virtually stuck' only within Finale? Perhaps related to the sometimes hanging notes in playback? Although the latter only requires closing and reopening the document to get rid of the problem.
A quick Google learns that it is a known problem (known to MakeMusic) and a quite old one (at least 2006!) at that. Is this ever going to be fixed or is it another one of those quirks we will 'have to learn to live with'?
Logging out and back in is most certainly faster than a full restart. Thanks for the tip, miker!
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
- Peter Thomsen
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Smart Shape metatools are document specific (not program specific).Jay Emmes wrote:What key could possibly be stuck? As far as I can tell, there is no key associated with the palm mute shape …
In Other Words:
To find out whether there is a key associated with the palm mute shape, you must open the document with the problem.
A stuck key is ‘virtually stuck’ in all Finale’s tools.
If you e. g. have assigned the letter P key to trigger the expression ‘pizz.’ - and also to trigger the articulation ‘Ped’, then you will “automatically” get ‘pizz.’ in the Expression Tool, and ‘Ped’ in the Articulation Tool.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
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In the default document, the Palm Mute uses the M key as a metatool. If there was a virtual stuck key happening with the M key, in the Expression Tool, you would automatically get a rehearsal letter, in the default document.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Jay Emmes
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- Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
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I haven't assigned any shortcuts, so it will have been the letter M that supposedly was stuck.
If this problem is document specific, does that mean this is going to happen again in this document?
When this happened this particular document was 3 (three!) days old and already prone to some kind of corruption?
Without changing anything in the document and by restarting the system, the problem is gone. Doesn't that point towards a problem with the application, rather than a problem with the document? I'm inclined to think that the problem is application specific, because all other applications functioned flawlessly when the M-key was stuck in Finale; besides, I have never encountered anything alike in any other application.
If this problem is document specific, does that mean this is going to happen again in this document?
When this happened this particular document was 3 (three!) days old and already prone to some kind of corruption?
Without changing anything in the document and by restarting the system, the problem is gone. Doesn't that point towards a problem with the application, rather than a problem with the document? I'm inclined to think that the problem is application specific, because all other applications functioned flawlessly when the M-key was stuck in Finale; besides, I have never encountered anything alike in any other application.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
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Yes, it's a bug in the application, not the document. I've only had it once, quite recently, in all the time I've used Finale; others get it with tedious regularity.
Its cause has not yet been pinpointed.
Its cause has not yet been pinpointed.
- Peter Thomsen
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No, the metatool is document specific.Jay Emmes wrote:… If this problem is document specific, does that mean this is going to happen again in this document? …
The “Virtual Stcuk Key” syndrome is system specific (not program specific) which is why you can get rid of it by logging out, and logging in again (i. e. rebooting is not necessary).
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Jay Emmes
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Sorry, I must have misunderstood.Peter Thomsen wrote:No, the metatool is document specific.
Such a shame MakeMusic doesn't make more of an effort to eliminate such very old bugs, though.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
- Michel R E
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MakeMusic goes to GREAT effort to fix bugs, the problem is that SOME bugs, like this one, are difficult to replicate. Notice that some users get it regularly, while others never, or almost never get it.Jay Emmes wrote:Sorry, I must have misunderstood.Peter Thomsen wrote:No, the metatool is document specific.
Such a shame MakeMusic doesn't make more of an effort to eliminate such very old bugs, though.
Don't start blaming MM.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- motet
- Posts: 8292
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Some easy-to-reproduce bugs have endured for years.
If you know it's the M key that's stuck, for example, does it work to press and release M? Then the Mac OS or Finale or whatever's responsible will get the "M up" message. This works on Windows.
If you know it's the M key that's stuck, for example, does it work to press and release M? Then the Mac OS or Finale or whatever's responsible will get the "M up" message. This works on Windows.
- MikeHalloran
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But the OP is not on Windows.motet wrote:Some easy-to-reproduce bugs have endured for years.
If you know it's the M key that's stuck, for example, does it work to press and release M? Then the Mac OS or Finale or whatever's responsible will get the "M up" message. This works on Windows.
I have never experienced this in Finale but have seen such things in other software. It could be a conflict with another app or old code from a long-dead application that is still installed.
If you can reproduce this problem, open Console and see what is going on with your system at the moment it occurs. Look for something try to load but can't or something that shouldn't load but does.
Last edited by MikeHalloran on Mon May 15, 2017 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
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- David Ward
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When I've had the virtual stuck key (a few times, but rarely), I've cured it by a rapid quasi-tremolo striking of the offending key while in a Finale tool which displays the phenomenon. First it is necessary to identify the offending key, and it is evident that this quasi-tremolo may not effect a cure in all cases.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
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Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- Jay Emmes
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I can confirm nor deny that MakeMusic's effort to fix bugs is "great", of course, since I can't have a peek inside their kitchen.Michel R E wrote:MakeMusic goes to GREAT effort to fix bugs […] Don't start blaming MM.
If there is a question of 'blame' (not saying that there is, but should there be one) it can, however, only be directed at MakeMusic, since they are the only ones who can address bugs in Finale.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
- Jay Emmes
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Worth trying, of course, but how do I find what the offending key is? In my case the problem was a persistent palm mute smart shape, which apparently is linked to the 'M' key, but I can't find that link anywhere.David Ward wrote:When I've had the virtual stuck key (a few times, but rarely), I've cured it by a rapid quasi-tremolo striking of the offending key while in a Finale tool which displays the phenomenon. First it is necessary to identify the offending key, and it is evident that this quasi-tremolo may not effect a cure in all cases.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
I've very occasionally had this problem and what seems to work for me is going to a program like Word or Pages and simply typing something. This seems to 'reset' the stuck key and Finale will then function normally. If the particular instance of the problem is more serious, I'll see it happen in the other program, as well, and then a logout/restart will be necessary. I'd say, try typing all the keys in a word processor first.
Vaughan
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I currently ran into the same problem and found this article online. I'm using 2014.5 on my Mac. Restarting the program didn't work. However I found the solution since it's about "stuck key" - I simply click the smart shape metatool with the key that stuck, then it's solved.
This is a weird situation but the same thing happens all the time, including midi keys for speedy entry. What I figured out was just simply enter that key again.
This is a weird situation but the same thing happens all the time, including midi keys for speedy entry. What I figured out was just simply enter that key again.
- motet
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You're posting to a 2-1/2-year-old thread. MM is certainly not blameless when it comes to bugs, but one only has to glance at the threads on this site to see people crying wolf all the time claiming Finale is broken when in fact there's something they're not understanding. And the Macintosh seems to be a moving target, with OS upgrades breaking older versions of Finale.