Scoring for orchestra - best practices
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:33 pm
- Finale Version: 25
- Operating System: Mac
I'm working on my second arrangement for choir and orchestra and would love some input from the forum
on the best way to deal with parts, particularly multiple voices on the same staff.
I've found that if the rhythms are the same, my full score is cleaner when I keep both parts in the same layer with shared stems.
Of course, once I extract parts, I have to manually delete notes so that each player (example Flute 1 and Flute 2) has only his/her notes.
Generally, I extract the Flute staff, then save it as Flute 1 and delete the Flute 2 notes, then save the Flute staff as Flute 2 and reverse the process.
I do my page formatting on the Flute staff, so I don't have to do it for each part. Any time saving suggestions here?
If I use separate layers with stems pointing in opposite directions, the score can get pretty crowded and seems harder for the conductor to read.
The more scores I look at, the more I see shared stems used for parts where the rhythms match.
Perhaps some orchestras share notes on the same page, but the one I'm working with does not.
Another option I considered was creating a separate staff for each instrument and setting each to the same position on the page.
That way each part would be extracted independently and each instrument could have it's own channel and sound.
Has anyone tried this? Any other suggestions?
on the best way to deal with parts, particularly multiple voices on the same staff.
I've found that if the rhythms are the same, my full score is cleaner when I keep both parts in the same layer with shared stems.
Of course, once I extract parts, I have to manually delete notes so that each player (example Flute 1 and Flute 2) has only his/her notes.
Generally, I extract the Flute staff, then save it as Flute 1 and delete the Flute 2 notes, then save the Flute staff as Flute 2 and reverse the process.
I do my page formatting on the Flute staff, so I don't have to do it for each part. Any time saving suggestions here?
If I use separate layers with stems pointing in opposite directions, the score can get pretty crowded and seems harder for the conductor to read.
The more scores I look at, the more I see shared stems used for parts where the rhythms match.
Perhaps some orchestras share notes on the same page, but the one I'm working with does not.
Another option I considered was creating a separate staff for each instrument and setting each to the same position on the page.
That way each part would be extracted independently and each instrument could have it's own channel and sound.
Has anyone tried this? Any other suggestions?
- motet
- Posts: 8226
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
I put the two instruments on different staves, make the parts from those (I don't extract), then combine them onto one staff for the purpose of the score. You can suppress the originals so they don't show in the score. There are plug-ins that will do the combining.
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1786
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
There is a plugin included with Finale that automates this process. Go to the Plugins menu, then to the TG Tools folder and find "Process Extracted Parts". To use the plugin, extract the Flute 1, 2 stave and duplicate the file. Open the first file (Flute 1) and run the plugin, telling it to extract voice 1. To process the Flute 2, open the second file and extract voice 2. If you extract parts, this is the way to go.Maryk4music wrote:Of course, once I extract parts, I have to manually delete notes so that each player (example Flute 1 and Flute 2) has only his/her notes.
You might want to investigate using linked parts rather than extracting. I think the benefits are self evident. You can still use common stems on 2 part staves and use the "voicing" feature to break them into individual parts. If your scoring is relatively straightforward, this should work out just fine.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
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Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
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Thanks for the suggestions. I am looking forward to checking out the plug in.
maryK
maryK
- ebiggs1
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There used to be a plug-in, still is for 2014.5, that allowed you to delete outer notes. Either upper or lower or inner for than matter, but Jari has not yet set it to Fin25 as far as I know. I used it constantly and I still do but I have to go back to 2014.5.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- michelp
- Posts: 2045
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JW Staff Polyphony does what you describe, and it is available for Finale 25.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- ebiggs1
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The 'old' one I like was JW Chord Manager. I don't think he has upgraded it?
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- michelp
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
- Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
- Operating System: Mac
JW Staff Polyphony includes all the functions of the old JW Chord Manager under the "Chord Lines" section.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1424
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Thanx, I will give it a try, ASAP.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
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- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:32 pm
- Finale Version: v.25.3
- Operating System: Mac
It sounds like you don't know about voiced linked parts.
You can have your flute 1 and 2 on the same staff in the score, and set the Flute 1 part to only use the top note when they share a stem, or use Layer 1 when there are two layers. Then set Flute 2 to use the SAME score staff, but only the bottom note when they share a stem and Layer 2 when there are two layers.
There are some problems with this, though.
You have to choose EITHER all notes on one stem, or two different layers in each measure. You can't mix inside the same measure. This isn't a deal-breaker for me, but you have to know it.
Sometimes you have to manage which layer expressions attach to, when they have to be different. You might have to duplicate or hide some slurs as well (easy to do, but it has to be managed).
If you have one instrument soloing, you have to remember to put whole rests in the other layer in the score, then in the part you have to create and assign a staff style ONLY to that part to hide the real rests so that they will turn into multi measure rests.
Cues are a complete, unmanageable kludge, because they have to appear in layers other than 1 or 2, which means they don't show up in parts but DO show up in the score, which is completely backwards! This reason alone causes some people to have two different files, one for the score and one for all parts on separate staves—still linked, but not linked to the score file.
Grace notes in voiced linked parts are too close to the notes in the parts. This means that you have to extract JUST those parts, which ruins the whole idea of linked parts. This is a bug that they haven't addressed in ten years.
You can have your flute 1 and 2 on the same staff in the score, and set the Flute 1 part to only use the top note when they share a stem, or use Layer 1 when there are two layers. Then set Flute 2 to use the SAME score staff, but only the bottom note when they share a stem and Layer 2 when there are two layers.
There are some problems with this, though.
You have to choose EITHER all notes on one stem, or two different layers in each measure. You can't mix inside the same measure. This isn't a deal-breaker for me, but you have to know it.
Sometimes you have to manage which layer expressions attach to, when they have to be different. You might have to duplicate or hide some slurs as well (easy to do, but it has to be managed).
If you have one instrument soloing, you have to remember to put whole rests in the other layer in the score, then in the part you have to create and assign a staff style ONLY to that part to hide the real rests so that they will turn into multi measure rests.
Cues are a complete, unmanageable kludge, because they have to appear in layers other than 1 or 2, which means they don't show up in parts but DO show up in the score, which is completely backwards! This reason alone causes some people to have two different files, one for the score and one for all parts on separate staves—still linked, but not linked to the score file.
Grace notes in voiced linked parts are too close to the notes in the parts. This means that you have to extract JUST those parts, which ruins the whole idea of linked parts. This is a bug that they haven't addressed in ten years.
Finale 2014.5 and v.25 on Mac OS 10.12.6 (Sierra)