Does the Custom Stem Tool have a function?

[Djard]

Can the "Custom Stem Tool" in Special Tools palette actually add diagonal or splayed stems, or is it merely a shortcut to the Shape Selection menu? The manual, almost always useless, focuses on the WHAT and not the HOW. Has anybody found a way to create diagonal stems with the Custom Stem Tool as intimated in the icon?

[motet]

The manual seems pretty clear to me:

if you double-click a note’s handle, you’ll enter the Shape Selection box, where you can select an existing shape you want to use as a stem. If you then click Create, you enter the Shape Designer, where you can draw any shape for use as a stem

I guess I would have written "if you instead click create...", since you wouldn't choose and existing shape and then click Create.

[motet]

Not that it's friendly! There seem to be dozens of diagonal lines, all nearly identical and all too long. You may have to create your own.

[Djard]

I read the manual as offering the Shape Designer as an option. The other icons in the Special Tools palette let you perform actual editing in the staff system. So the Custom Stem Tool is by no means a "tool" but merely a shortcut to diagonal lines that cannot be used for splayed stems because they are associated with tempo alterations (that is why they are too long).

It is a help to me to learn that someone more knowledgeable than I cannot use the "tool" as a tool. I don't need to labor now at trying to figure out how to make it work. For that I'm grateful.

Since use of the Designer tool requires a lot of trial and error in creating short diagonal lines, and because any lines created may not suit the next cluster pattern, I'll use the more expedient Custom Line tool to draw the diagonal stems.

[N Grossingink]

The new Dorico software does it automatically - just enter the notes:

Stem.png (9.18 KiB) Viewed 8486 times

I think you're right to use a custom line and do it on the screen. Much less bother. I'd suggest rather than offsetting one note, like the Dorico example, have both notes straddle the beat position, like this example from printed music:

Stem2.png (18.21 KiB) Viewed 8486 times

N.

[Djard]

Thanks. I think the splayed option offers better music spacing.

[motet]

I think you have a misconception of what constitutes a "tool" in Finale. Most tools don't let you draw something. But you're right that this one is pretty minimal.

[Djard]

Maybe you are right. To me, a tool is an implement, like any other, not necessarily with which to draw but perform some action. It make no sense to me to refer to a shortcut to a tool also a tool. A lawn mower is a tool, but the door to the lawn mower by analogy is not a tool but merely a shortcut. But I think I'll do better if I understand Finale's language. Thanks for your patience.

[John Ruggero]

Of possible historical interest. Here is how Chopin handled this. The first edition is shown, but the autograph is the same. I find this quite clear, and without the bother of the ugly angled stems.

Chromatic unisons.jpg (18.88 KiB) Viewed 8435 times

[Djard]

I find the Chopin phrase quite readable. But keyboardists have no occasion to play chords with unison notes as in classical guitar. Splayed stems for unisons with a chromatic note are therefore necessary (3 or 4 note chords). Fortunately, such instances are relatively rare.

I have long maintained that Finale is not guitar friendly, especially for flamenco guitar. Perhaps because flamencos do not read music, except for tablature that I find a little crude. BTW, in 40 years, I have never seen flamenco written correctly, if bar lines are viewed as representing accents.

[John Ruggero]

That's very interesting, Djard. I would love to see an example of Flemenco notated correctly, including the unisons you mentioned.

[Djard]

In the attachment you will find an example of flamenco written correctly. To the best of my knowledge--and pardon me for tooting my horn--I am the only composer that conventionally scores flamenco, respecting bar lines. I have seen the works of flamenco celebrities published in books; but in each case, the bars are misplaced.

For example, Soleá is properly counted as uno-dos-TRES-cuatro-cinco-SEIS-siete-OCHO-nueve-DIEZ-uno-DOS and repeat for what is called compás or rhythmic cycle. But written, the last DOS is the first beat of a 3/4 measure. Since bar lines indicate accents, the following is therefore correct, the first DOS (count 12) is silent as Soleares technically begins on the second beat (counted as "uno").

3/4 ----- uno-dos-|TRES-cuatro-cinco-|2/4 SEIS-siete-|OCHO-nueve-|DIEZ-uno-
3/4 DOS uno-dos-|TRES-cuatro-cinco-|2/4 SEIS-siete-|OCHO-nueve-|DIEZ-uno- etc.

The principle accents are counted TRES and DIEZ. So the cycle is 3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 2/4, 2/4. A little confusing but logical when the concept is grasped. Otherwise notes are unwittingly accented by writing this rhythm in straight 3/4, which is the practice of writers without formal training.

In the attached, the very old rhythm of Siguiriyas actually starts on eight. The principle accents are:

2/4 EIGHT-nine-|TEN-eleven-|3/4 TWELVE-one-two-|THREE-four-five-|2/4 SIX-seven-

In the dance schools, the teachers more comfortably count the rhythm as ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-a-FOUR-and-a-FIVE-and-

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, Djard. That is very educational for someone like me who has never seen notated Flemenco. Using alternating meter as you do it would seem to be essential.

Most of the special guitar markings in your score are over my head, but I am curious about the bar lines that extend beyond the staff at 5-6 and 10-11. And the meaning of the different notations for the arpeggiated chords?

From the engraving point of view, you appear to be using time signature spacing. I applied note spacing and it looks better to me, especially the 32nds, which are very compressed in your file.

Concerning chordal unisons for the guitar: if they don't have accidentals, then they might be put on either side of a single stem. If they have accidentals, then Chopin's solution could be used. I am considering using his notation in the future because I really dislike the splayed stems.

[Peter Thomsen]

… I am curious about the bar lines that extend beyond the staff at 5-6 and 10-11 …

There is a time signature pattern that repeats for every 5 measures (12 quarters).
It seems to me that the longer barlines indicate where the next {12 quarter} cycle begins.

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, Peter. That is undoubtedly what the extended bar lines mean, and a very nice notation it is.

[Djard]

Peter is a forensic composer! (That's intended to be a compliment.)