German eszett in Finale lyrics font
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
Hello all,
Is there a way to type the Eszett (ß) in Finale Lyrics Font? the symbol shows up in Times NR, but disappears when changed to Finale Lyrics. I'm transcribing some early Schoenberg songs, which are very horizontally dense, and TNR looks awfully cluttered. Thoughts? Should I just go with double S?
Thanks,
JR
Finale 2014.5
Windows 10
Is there a way to type the Eszett (ß) in Finale Lyrics Font? the symbol shows up in Times NR, but disappears when changed to Finale Lyrics. I'm transcribing some early Schoenberg songs, which are very horizontally dense, and TNR looks awfully cluttered. Thoughts? Should I just go with double S?
Thanks,
JR
Finale 2014.5
Windows 10
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
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- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
I'm afraid I'm not sure of the equivalent in Windows, but on my Mac I just tried and had no difficulty entering ß in Finale Lyrics font. I selected the German flag in my Apple language menu and typed into the score with the appropriate key stroke.
I would expect there to be a Windows equivalent, but what it is I don't know.
I would expect there to be a Windows equivalent, but what it is I don't know.
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Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
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- Operating System: Mac
Unfortunately, the 2014 User manual gives only the following:
Finale Lyrics Font
The Finale Lyrics font contains standard text characters. It was designed specifically for optimal lyric spacing. (To see a complete list of characters, use your system's font character map.)
Finale Lyrics Font
The Finale Lyrics font contains standard text characters. It was designed specifically for optimal lyric spacing. (To see a complete list of characters, use your system's font character map.)
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
- miker
- Posts: 6012
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Like Peter, I only have a Mac. But PopChar shows it in the FL font, so I'm sure it's in the Windows, as well. Looking at the character viewer should show it. You might try ALT+223 or Alt+225. Other fonts seem to have it in those positions.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6623
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
JR,
If you can not make {the keyboard shortcut to ß} (= Alt-0223) work, then try Finale’s dialog box Symbol Selection.
If you can not make {the keyboard shortcut to ß} (= Alt-0223) work, then try Finale’s dialog box Symbol Selection.
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Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Operating System: Mac
With the standard English layout (US or UK), you should be able to get a ß with Alt S.David Ward wrote: I selected the German flag in my Apple language menu and typed into the score with the appropriate key stroke.
Hi Peter,
I tried this. In the symbol dialog, character 223 shows up as a blank space (although the description in the lower left corner indicates that the sharp S *should* be there). Consequently, when I type Alt 0223, I get a blank space in the lyrics. Could this be a Windows issue?
JR
I tried this. In the symbol dialog, character 223 shows up as a blank space (although the description in the lower left corner indicates that the sharp S *should* be there). Consequently, when I type Alt 0223, I get a blank space in the lyrics. Could this be a Windows issue?
JR
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- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:21 am
- Finale Version: Finale 25.2
- Operating System: Windows
The problem is that the Finale Lyrics font does not have an eszett. The slot 223 is empty. You can also check this by opening a Microsoft Word document and typing Alt+0223. The ß appears (as it just did here). Still in Word, select the symbol and change the font to Finale Lyrics. The ß becomes an empty space.
The easiest workaround is to use the alternate spelling "ss." Another must be done in the Lyrics Window. Enter text using the Finale Lyrics font. Then enter the first ß using Alt-0223. The blank space appears. Select the blank space and change the font to Times New Roman. The ß appears. That ß can be copied and pasted in other locations in the Lyrics Window. This is the same approach used to enter the (pre-Unicode) elision slur used in much Italian vocal music. For more details, search on "elision slur" in the Finale Help file.
The easiest workaround is to use the alternate spelling "ss." Another must be done in the Lyrics Window. Enter text using the Finale Lyrics font. Then enter the first ß using Alt-0223. The blank space appears. Select the blank space and change the font to Times New Roman. The ß appears. That ß can be copied and pasted in other locations in the Lyrics Window. This is the same approach used to enter the (pre-Unicode) elision slur used in much Italian vocal music. For more details, search on "elision slur" in the Finale Help file.
Graeme Gilmore
Finale 27.2, Windows 10 64-bit Home Premium, GPO, TGTools, Patterson Plug-Ins, Copyist's Helper, JW Plug-Ins
Finale 27.2, Windows 10 64-bit Home Premium, GPO, TGTools, Patterson Plug-Ins, Copyist's Helper, JW Plug-Ins
- miker
- Posts: 6012
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- Operating System: Mac
As BT said, definitely worth raising the issue. This is exactly the kind of thing that could be taken care of with just a few minutes work in their font editor, and released immediately.
Isn't that what they more-or-less told us they would be doing?
Has anyone sent it in?
Isn't that what they more-or-less told us they would be doing?
Has anyone sent it in?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- miker
- Posts: 6012
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Finale has corrected the omission. They sent me new versions of the Finale Lyrics, Lyrics Bold, and Lyrics Italic, all .ttf. Since I have a Mac, they don't do me any good. I asked if they would be posted on the MM site, but in the meantime, send me an email at wawoodman at aol dot com, and I will forward them along.
I'm sure you Windows guys know this, but they said after installing the font, to restart Windows, so that Finale will recognize the fonts .
Thanks, MM and Kevin, for the quick response!
I'm sure you Windows guys know this, but they said after installing the font, to restart Windows, so that Finale will recognize the fonts .
Thanks, MM and Kevin, for the quick response!
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
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Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
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- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
MM needs to update the fonts at this link:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ncorrectly
These appear to be the ones that installed with 2014.5 or 25/25.1. They are not the Dec. 16, 2016 updated versions that come with 25.2 on and there are some changes to some of them including SMuFL support for Maestro.ttf.
I notice that the fonts with 25.4 have create dates of June 21, 2017. Except for that, all 38 Mac fonts are identical with the ones in 25.2/3.
Having the latest does not mean that they install (on a Mac, at least).
As far as I can tell, SMuFL support for Maestro means that, if you import via MusicXML a file created in an SMuFL font, Maestro should now display the Unicode characters in Finale. Compatible does not = compliant.
Anyway, once that link is updated to the latest and greatest, those fonts should be available to older versions of Finale, too, without having to download the demo and installing them from there.
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ncorrectly
These appear to be the ones that installed with 2014.5 or 25/25.1. They are not the Dec. 16, 2016 updated versions that come with 25.2 on and there are some changes to some of them including SMuFL support for Maestro.ttf.
I notice that the fonts with 25.4 have create dates of June 21, 2017. Except for that, all 38 Mac fonts are identical with the ones in 25.2/3.
Having the latest does not mean that they install (on a Mac, at least).
As far as I can tell, SMuFL support for Maestro means that, if you import via MusicXML a file created in an SMuFL font, Maestro should now display the Unicode characters in Finale. Compatible does not = compliant.
Anyway, once that link is updated to the latest and greatest, those fonts should be available to older versions of Finale, too, without having to download the demo and installing them from there.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Hi All,
Here are the two replies I got from MM. (Editorializing: "Customer success"? Whose idea was that?!)
------------------------------
Thanks for contacting the MakeMusic Customer Success team!
You are absolutely correct that our Finale Lyrics font should have the Eszett character. This character does appear in the Mac version of the font. Our resident Font expert was able to add this character to the Windows TTF fonts (Plain, Bold, and Italic), which I have attached to this email. Could you please download and install these three fonts? Please remember to restart your computer so that Windows can properly register the fonts for use in Finale.
-------------------------------
I meant to mention in my last email that we're working on an OpenType update to these fonts that we'll make available to the public in the not too distant future. The update will include this missing glyph on Windows, plus the new glyphs, like the ellipsis, scarons, eths, zcarons, etc.
I hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any questions about this.
Cheers!
Here are the two replies I got from MM. (Editorializing: "Customer success"? Whose idea was that?!)
------------------------------
Thanks for contacting the MakeMusic Customer Success team!
You are absolutely correct that our Finale Lyrics font should have the Eszett character. This character does appear in the Mac version of the font. Our resident Font expert was able to add this character to the Windows TTF fonts (Plain, Bold, and Italic), which I have attached to this email. Could you please download and install these three fonts? Please remember to restart your computer so that Windows can properly register the fonts for use in Finale.
-------------------------------
I meant to mention in my last email that we're working on an OpenType update to these fonts that we'll make available to the public in the not too distant future. The update will include this missing glyph on Windows, plus the new glyphs, like the ellipsis, scarons, eths, zcarons, etc.
I hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any questions about this.
Cheers!
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
This is a very old topic, but I searched for it after reading about the missing character (ß) on the official MakeMusic forum (which I don't use, aside from reading occasionally). The OP didn't get any satisfaction as to the resolution. I found the corrected font that MakeMusic sent me back a few years ago when I reported the missing ß in the Finale Lyrics Font. I just assumed newer versions of Finale would automatically have the updated font. That is not the case. If anyone would like to direct the OP on that forum over here, I can be of help in terms of what needs to be done to get the proper font and thus the missing character (ß).
Zuill
P.S.: This is a Windows only issue. The Finale Lyrics Font that ships with Finale 26 is Version 1.3. The Fixed font is version 1.4.
Zuill
P.S.: This is a Windows only issue. The Finale Lyrics Font that ships with Finale 26 is Version 1.3. The Fixed font is version 1.4.
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- michelp
- Posts: 2056
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- Operating System: Mac
Hi miker,
Not sure I understand your remark.
.ttf fonts (Truetype fonts) are perfectly usable on a Mac. Just add them to your Font Book. The ttf format is compatible with MacOs and Windows.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
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I think what miker meant was that since the eszett was never missing from the Mac version of the Finale Lyrics font, getting the version that was specifically updated to include it for Windows users wouldn't be of any use to him, because it didn't provide anything that he didn't already have.
- miker
- Posts: 6012
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- Operating System: Mac
I honestly don't remember. Sorry.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Well, I can see from the "other" forum that the OP has decided to use TNR to get the ß. That's one way. The Finale Lyrics Font is basically a narrower version of TNR, which can help to achieve a less cluttered look in the score.
Anyway, I tried. If anyone does want the version 1.4 of the font for Windows, I might be of help. I got mine directly from MM 6 years ago when the glitch was discovered, and the updated font was created. I'm wondering why they chose not to bundle the fixed version with more recent Finale updates. Makes no sense to me.
If I was permitted to upload the font here, I would, for those who want it. However, I'm not sure I have the permission to do so. It is not available for download on the MM site, as a standalone download. I don't know if the Fontpack has the newer version, so I can't recommend that approach as a fix.
Zuill
Anyway, I tried. If anyone does want the version 1.4 of the font for Windows, I might be of help. I got mine directly from MM 6 years ago when the glitch was discovered, and the updated font was created. I'm wondering why they chose not to bundle the fixed version with more recent Finale updates. Makes no sense to me.
If I was permitted to upload the font here, I would, for those who want it. However, I'm not sure I have the permission to do so. It is not available for download on the MM site, as a standalone download. I don't know if the Fontpack has the newer version, so I can't recommend that approach as a fix.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- miker
- Posts: 6012
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I went to the website, but the only Download page seemed to be your registered programs. I didn’t see the general downloads page where could have looked for a font pack, or something similar. Was that removed, or did I just miss it?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I saw the FontPack downloads on the page linked earlier in this topic (Mike Halloran).
I too couldn't find fonts on the download page. I was intrigued to see version 27 as one of the options in the list. What does that mean? Is there a version in Beta testing?
Zuill
I too couldn't find fonts on the download page. I was intrigued to see version 27 as one of the options in the list. What does that mean? Is there a version in Beta testing?
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."