how do I do ellisions in text?

steltz · Post by **steltz** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:53 am

I need to type in Italian text that uses ellisions to join 2 syllables on one note. There is nothing in the Finale help that tells me how to do that.

I've just upgraded to Finale 25.4, and I work with Windows 10.

Thanks to anyone who can help!!

Bill Stevens · Post by **Bill Stevens** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:43 am

From the manual:

OpenTo create an elision slur between lyrics
Choose the Lyrics tool . The Lyrics menu appears.
Choose Lyrics > Lyrics Window. The Lyrics window appears. Type the lyrics in the usual way, up to the elision.
Type the first syllable. Without adding a space, type a capital I, then the second syllable.
Drag to select the I. Choose Text > Font. Choose EngraverFontSet and click OK. Complete the remaining lyrics.
Click OK. When you enter these lyrics using the OPTION-click assignment method (see Lyrics), Finale distributes the syllables you just created to the corresponding notes of the melody, but treats the elision as a single syllable. A slur will appear between the two syllables.

====

That's not the simplest thing in the world to do, but it works.

Bill

steltz · Post by **steltz** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:47 am

Thank you very much, it works. I think I didn't find it in the manual because I misspelled elision. B

N Grossingink · Post by **N Grossingink** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:45 pm

As a point of interest, Steinberg's new Dorico software produces elisions by simply typing the underscore character. The lyric tool in Dorico is remarkably straightforward in its use. On the other hand, there is no "Edit Lyrics" window where you can see all lyrics in a file, do edits therein, and copy and paste from a text file. And, no "Click Assignment" to automate entry - all lyrics must be typed directly into the score from beginning to end.

A short demo here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfhDVl- ... uHh6cs9-Cp

N.

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:09 pm

I do the much same thing, but I use an upper case X, since they are so rarely used in lyrics. Then, I can do a Search and Replace to replace them all at once.

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:41 pm

The Finale Lyrics font has the needed character. That is what I use. Then I don't need to mix fonts.

Zuill

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:00 pm

But many people don't use the Finale Lyrics font.

Bill Stevens · Post by **Bill Stevens** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:33 pm

What is the keystroke for elision in the Lyrics Font? Odd that under Help > Character Sets it shows keystrokes for all the fonts except Lyrics.

Bill

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:36 pm

I use Finale Lyrics because it is a tighter version of Times, as far as I know. I can then make the size larger, without taking up too much horizontal space. There are 2 elision characters in Finale lyrics: 275 and 291. I can't seem to invoke them with the alt method, so I enter a unique character and then replace them all en masse with search and replace. 291 is the better of the 2. I'm not sure the purpose of the 275 character, as it doesn't space the letters apart.

Zuill

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:43 pm

And I agree with you, as far as that goes. But, when I'm doing barbershop stuff, I'm constrained to TNR by their stylesheet.

Bill, there is no keystroke for it. You would have to get to it through either Text>Inset>Symbol... (it's in slot 291) or with an app like PopChar. That's on a Mac.

Zuill, could you weigh in on Windows access to the elision?

BuonTempi · Post by **BuonTempi** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:53 pm

I've long campaigned that Finale should have an "Insert Elision" menu item. Obviously, you would need a place in Doc Opts to set the font and char used.

If you think it's a good idea, let MM know.

It's also worth mentioning that Finale's Text Search & Replace has some pretty nifty options, which I had long overlooked until they were pointed out recently on this very forum.

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:59 pm

I would not use slot 275. Use 291 instead.

Zuill

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Zuill, you are 100% correct. I was just about to post that the 275 glyph doesn't work correctly unless you put a hard space on both sides. The 291 is fine, and, in fact, has the same coding as what is indicated in PopChar. I guess, when I got to it at 275, I stopped looking.

So I was using the wrong character from the Text Symbols, but the right one from PopChar.

Thanks for the correction.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:10 pm

Windows users could get WinCompose and define their own memorable sequence to enter the character.

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:12 pm

BuonTempi wrote:I've long campaigned that Finale should have an "Insert Elision" menu item. Obviously, you would need a place in Doc Opts to set the font and char used.

If you think it's a good idea, let MM know.

It's also worth mentioning that Finale's Text Search & Replace has some pretty nifty options, which I had long overlooked until they were pointed out recently on this very forum.

And that should be done as well as adding a true hard hyphen. I've heard rumors that a font revamp is underway; maybe now is the time to push for them!

michelp · Post by **michelp** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:51 pm

P.S. : PopChar (mentioned by miker) is also available on PC (http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharwin/).

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:01 pm

michelp wrote:P.S. : PopChar (mentioned by miker) is also available on PC (http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharwin/).

And really belongs on everybody's computer, IMNSHO!

motet · Post by **motet** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:20 pm

WinCompose is free:

https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose

miker · Post by **miker** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:47 pm

I remember an app much like that 10 or 15 years ago. You hit a hotkey, and then an "intuitve" two-key combination. It worked well, but didn't give you nearly the range of PopChars.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:56 am

WinCompose has something like 1,700 pre-characters defined, and you can add your own. They are in fact intuitive for the most part. key ` a for à (where "key" is the compose key), key ^ o for ô, key s s for ß, etc.

It would drive me nuts if I had to pick a character from a menu every time, but it's a matter of taste, I guess.

miker · Post by **miker** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:40 pm

That's just how I remember that other program. And there is certainly nothing wrong with the way it works. But how would it handle something where you were using Maestro Times, and wanted to access the musical characters?

I'm not arguing; just saying that PopChars might have greater depth in some cases.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:07 pm

That's a good point. I guess the ideal program would let you do either.

miker · Post by **miker** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:19 pm

And read my mind, and make coffee.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:48 pm

I may get this. I've been using something called Font Xplorer, but it hasn't been improved in years and doesn't do Unicode. I would use it for oddball one-off characters, but would retain WinCompose for accented characters and the like.

motet · Post by **motet** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 am

Well, I wanted to like PopChar, but it doesn't work well on my system. The main issue seems to be copying and pasting, which sometimes doesn't work or behaves strangely. I used a clipboard manager program called Clipmate (invaluable) so maybe that's it. I also don't like the characters being put into categories, which are meaningless for fonts like Maestro. The help file has an "Inserting characters" section that starts, "Let's insert a Euro character" but then switches without warning to the @ sign. Also, stray spaces sometimes appear in the search window, which empties the display until the search field is cleared. For US$35 I expect it not to have such issues. Probably the Mac version works better.

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