Things that move in pdf files

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:56 pm

gary-duane wrote:OK, something REALLY simple for my almost beginners:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ddpw9p5p3xy7z9/PDF.png?dl=0
Check M39, 40, 41. Phrase marks moved, finger numbers moved.
The slurs and fingering have moved upwards. This usually indicates a problem with Finale's Font Annotation mechanism, and its associated Font Annotation file. Why a direct printout looks fine and a PDF exhibits this movement I don't know. We really need to see your Finale file.
gary-duane wrote:I think someone else said we need an extra PDF program, but I have no idea how I would do that...
Mike Halloran suggested the Cute PDF Writer, which is available here:
http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
The web page details how and what to install. It's my guess that this is the solution to your problem.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 am

zuill wrote:I think there is a misunderstanding about seeing a file. We need to examine a Finale file to examine the issue. Seeing a picture tells us almost nothing.

Zuill
OK, but this is only the tip of the iceberg.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qswou6296m7w0 ... s.MUS?dl=0

gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:47 am

And apparently that does not work.

Please understand that I have fought with my system for two hours already trying to get Finale registered again, so at the moment I'm just ticked off.

I fail to see how uploading the file is going to explain why the PDF is moving things when Finale itself prints things out perfectly from the program itself, using the mus file.

What am I missing here????????????

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:16 pm

I was able to download the file from your Dropbox link. The file looks fine onscreen. I tried making PDFs two different ways - through Finale itself (Graphics Tool/Export as PDF) and through my computer's Macintosh PDF creator. Both PDFs looked fine, there was no movement of any elements.

I'd suggest you install the Cute PDF writer and try that. There seems to be something unique to your computer setup that is causing the movement to occur. Perhaps a new PDF creator will negate the error and produce a proper PDF.

I'm sorry that you are having the problems with registration discussed elsewhere. I feel at least a little of the frustration you must be experiencing. All I can say is keep us notified as to what's happening. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here willing to help.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:56 pm

I too do not see any moving when rendering to PDF. However, I am going to suggest that there may be underlying causes that can't be seen due to the fact that this file was created 20 years ago in Finale 3.0. Sometimes things lurk behind the curtains with older files. Have you tried recreating the music in a newly created file? If the problems don't continue, I would suggest the moving might be due to the age of the file and you might not be able to find an answer to what the actual cause is.

Zuill

P.S.: Also, there's a hidden staff in this file. I can't say that it causes any problems, but you might try deleting it and see if anything changes.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:58 pm

One more thing: you are using Finale 2012a. I am using Finale 2012c to open this file. Maybe the c update fixed some things that might be adversely affecting your file. I know you're having authorization issues. If you get that straightened out, you may want to use update to 2012c and see what happens.

Zuill
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gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:13 pm

zuill wrote:One more thing: you are using Finale 2012a. I am using Finale 2012c to open this file. Maybe the c update fixed some things that might be adversely affecting your file. I know you're having authorization issues. If you get that straightened out, you may want to use update to 2012c and see what happens.

Zuill
I'm not going NEAR a Finale update. I have zero problems printing anything out as I normally, and right now I trust Finale about as much my worst enemy.

gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:18 pm

zuill wrote:I too do not see any moving when rendering to PDF. However, I am going to suggest that there may be underlying causes that can't be seen due to the fact that this file was created 20 years ago in Finale 3.0. Sometimes things lurk behind the curtains with older files. Have you tried recreating the music in a newly created file? If the problems don't continue, I would suggest the moving might be due to the age of the file and you might not be able to find an answer to what the actual cause is.

Zuill

P.S.: Also, there's a hidden staff in this file. I can't say that it causes any problems, but you might try deleting it and see if anything changes.
The hidden staff is about spacing things correctly. I always use it because it gives me better spacing. I'd have to delete that in every file I make.

The obvious check would be to save the file as a musx file.

I deleted all but two lines and resaved the file. This is last night. You are saying the file was created 20 years ago. I continually update all my files. The problem I told you about happens for any PDF file I create.

Until I create something as a musx file, from scratch, I suppose I can't say for sure that it will continue to happen. But I repeat: I use printouts from Finale 99% of the time, so the problems with PDF is just an annoyance that happened the one time I wanted to share something with a friend who does not have Finale.

Please understand that as of this moment my frustration with Make Music is absolutely through the roof.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:20 pm

If you need files put into pdf, possibly someone here can do that for you until you get things sorted out.

I use Win 7, delaying Win10 as long as possible, as I've heard about issues that I don't want.

Updating to 2012c is not the same as 2014 or v25. But I understand you are frustrated. I've never had any of the issues you are having with Finale, and I have been using it since 1997 (version 3.1). So, I don't have firsthand experience with those huge issues. However, I've mentored many users through difficult situations with Finale, so I am aware that there can be problems.

Sorry that things have gone haywire for you. Hope you can figure things out soon.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:36 pm

Another question:

When you export a picture file from the document, do you get the same jumping around as with pdf?

Also, you asked about musx files. 2012 doesn't use that format, does it? What are you using to create them?

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:42 pm

I saved the file via the print menu/CutePDF and Finale's PDF export and nothing moves but they are different. Horizontal placement is a little different, line thickness is different, and the font for the measure numbers is different (print wrong, export correct). I'll attach a PDF file with the two versions as two pages; print is first, export second. You can zoom in and switch back and forth between pages.

Is the slur supposed to be into the margins like that?
Attachments
TwoLines.zip
(34.69 KiB) Downloaded 144 times

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:10 pm

I often have differences between pdf export and print in terms of line thickness. The print output depends on things such as laser or inkjet, print output settings, etc. Fonts can also be different, depending on whether they are embedded or not.

The main issue, however, is that the numbers and slurs don't move, as in the posted picture files. That is odd that a pdf would cause that..

Zuill
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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:11 pm

Actual printing is not involved here, though.

Print-to-PDF or CutePDF seems to be substituting MS Sans Serif for Arial in the measure numbers.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:18 pm

When you said print, I thought you meant you print then scanned to pdf. You meant using the print menu. A bit of miscommunication, I guess.

So we are talking about differences in the way pdfs are rendered. That is a known issue with Finale, as far as I can recall, since the export to pdf was introduced as a "feature".

Still, slurs and fingerings don't move.

Zuill
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gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:01 pm

zuill wrote:When you said print, I thought you meant you print then scanned to pdf. You meant using the print menu. A bit of miscommunication, I guess.

So we are talking about differences in the way pdfs are rendered. That is a known issue with Finale, as far as I can recall, since the export to pdf was introduced as a "feature".

Still, slurs and fingerings don't move.

Zuill
You say they "don't move". Well, very obviously they DO move for me, so the only way I can check this is out is to download another version of Finale, and I hope at this point you understand why I would just as soon shoot myself in the head at this point.

It is now 22 hours since I got "advice" from Make Music that is totally wrong. A guy there told me to turn off the Windows Firewall. His directions:

"Press the WINDOWS key + R, the Run dialog will appear. Type in the following and press OK.

services.msc"

When I do that, I get an error screen telling me that I can't to that. I'm assuming I have to somehow disable the Firewall as administrator.

It's like you guys are giving me a solution to how to fix the radio in my car when I I can't even start the car.

Do you understand why, at this point, I am absolutely not trusting Make Music? I have a version that works, and no one somewhere in Internet Land can turn off the program.

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Post by motet » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:09 pm

zuill wrote:That is a known issue with Finale, as far as I can recall, since the export to pdf was introduced as a "feature".
Zuill
It looks like in this case, as far as the font is concerned, the Finale export is more accurate than print to pdf.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:15 pm

As far as print to pdf, it might depend on how you have it set up. There are options.

Zuill
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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:23 pm

You're right--I switched to "download as soft fonts" and that rendered it in Arial instead of MS Sans Serif.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:28 pm

gary-duane wrote: You say they "don't move". Well, very obviously they DO move for me, so the only way I can check this is out is to download another version of Finale, and I hope at this point you understand why I would just as soon shoot myself in the head at this point.
If I were you I'd install CutePDF and be done with it. We already know that the Finale PDF export is buggy.
Last edited by motet on Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:01 pm

Shooting one's self in the head is not all that it's cracked up to be. I would consider an alternative step as the suggested one could be quite messy.

Zuill
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:23 am

CutePDF works nicely for me. It also works flawlessly with MS-Word and just about any other app with ability to print, either to file or to paper. Just remember to check "Fit to Page" before printing (saving) as a PDF file or printing to paper.

Finale renders at 600 dpi, so the print quality in the free but excellent CutePDF is veeeeeery good. It also serves as a print preview.

gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:01 am

zuill wrote:Shooting one's self in the head is not all that it's cracked up to be. I would consider an alternative step as the suggested one could be quite messy.

Zuill
I appreciate your sense of humor. But you might possible consider how you would feel being locked out of a program for 8 months.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:56 pm

Did you ever upgrade to 2014 or 2014.5 before v25? Just wondering.

Zuill
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gary-duane
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Post by gary-duane » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:49 pm

zuill wrote:Did you ever upgrade to 2014 or 2014.5 before v25? Just wondering.

Zuill
No. I'm using whatever version of 2012 I bought, and since I have never once had a problem with it, that's what I continue to use.

I don't know how upgrades work. I've never screwed around with them because stability is 99% of what I need.

I teach with Finale. I am continually printing out music, on an "as needs" basis, in lessons.

I use only my own materials for the first year or so, gradually moving into standard editions when I have all the fundamentals in place for students.

I print out in EVERY lesson for EVERY student, EVERY day.

My business would literally have been ruined by these problems if I had used and updated my files to musx.

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Post by BuonTempi » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:06 am

gary-duane wrote: No. I'm using whatever version of 2012 I bought, and since I have never once had a problem with it, that's what I continue to use.
You never had a problem with 2012? That is as rare an experience as the problems you've had with newer versions.! :lol:

Apropos of PDFs: I think I read that Windows 10 does, finally, produce PDFs natively. Staggered that it's taken so long.
Last edited by BuonTempi on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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