How do we stop notation from floating?

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:13 am

I perform a "final" edit zoomed in at 200%, previewing my work in a PDF file; since the alignment of notation viewed at 100% does not appear the same in actual print. But if I do any more editing in the document, much of the fingering, accidentals, custom lines and such throughout the score move from where I wrote them. I disabled "Automatic Update Layout" in Preferences, but the items I mentioned still do not remain in the exact place where I wrote them. Is there any way to stop the notation from floating about? They do not move much but enough to make the score look unprofessional.


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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:09 am

Have you disabled Automatic Music Spacing? I think you want to leave Automatic Update Layout on.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:53 am

I have not experienced this, except for the bug when using independent signatures. Also, when using cross staff notation, there will be some wonkiness with certain settings involving articulations. Is this with all files?

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Post by Vaughan » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:09 am

I agree with Motet: you shouldn't disable Automatic Update Layout, as the layout will get updated anyway when Finale performs certain functions like saving or printing, and your file will change unexpectedly. Automatic Music Spacing could be the culprit, as well as Independent Time Signatures, as Zuill suggested.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:31 pm

Thanks. I will re-enable automatic update layout.

The minor instability occurs in all documents. But I think the reason you do not experience the issue is because you do not write for guitar. Finale was not developed with the classical or flamenco guitarist in mind.

For example, numbers indicating left hand fingering seem like magnets attracted to notes as if they were made of iron. Before the "final" (ha! ha!) save, I must go through the labor of proof-reading the score to ensure the numbers have not drifted too closely to the notes. String numbers, which I had to create (cicled number) and use of lines to indicate how long to barré a chord and such also like to move closer the Roman numerals (e.g. 1/2CIV), whether created as articulations or expressions.

I guess I'll just have to live with the matter.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:41 pm

Just a thought-

If you have created any of these fingering indications as a Shape Expression, make sure in the designer window that "Allow Horizontal Stretching" is unchecked. This setting is not needed for the vast majority of Shape Expressions.

I've never seen the kind of movement you describe, but then again I don't engrave music that has a lot of separate expressions entered.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:29 pm

Djard, why don't you attach a sample of a file having the problem. I'm suspicious of the claim that it's because you're doing different notation. You might be making some inadvertent mistake that we could solve.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:00 am

In the attached sample, I have aligned numerous times the stem of the "golpe" symbols (x|) with those of the note on which I want them to superimpose. The horizontal line with the down-pointing hook after "rasg." likes to creep closer to the period as well as the barré indications (e.g. 1/2CII), such as after additional editing or saving, re-opening, etc. The left hand fingering (numbers next to notes) often move toward the nearest note, too.

Since I have not been able to find an even remotely realistic-sounding soundfont for nylon string guitar, I've given up on playback. And I'm not going to dedicate layer 4 to the percussive golpe (sigh!) any more; instead, I'll change a note head in layer 1, which is disappointing to suffer such restriction because of Finale's instability. Really, the software is not for concert guitarists. Also, I noticed that the more complex the score, the more often Finale hangs or crashes, especially when saving the file. I experience none of these problems when writing for orchestral instruments.
Attachments
Feria en Abril (Sevillanas)(Ensemble) X (Ossia can be Added).mus
Feria en Abril
(133.6 KiB) Downloaded 144 times

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:28 am

I don't see jumping around. If you do between rasg. and the line, why not just make them as a unified Smart Shape? Also, no need for the stem on the x notehead. Just create a blank custom stem and avoid the need for overlapping.

Sometimes we work harder than we need to.

Zuill

P.S.: In the revised version of your file, I made the 2 suggested changes on the first system only, as a demo.
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Feria en Abril (Sevillanas)(Ensemble) X (Ossia can be Added) Revised.mus
(133.61 KiB) Downloaded 160 times
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:35 am

The rasg. and the beginning of the smart line are tied to different beats. If you edit the measure and as a result its width changes, the distance between the beats can change as the measure is respaced. That's probably what you're seeing and is normal behavior, and rather than disabling music spacing you can do what Zuill suggests.

The fingering numbers seem OK.
Last edited by motet on Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:55 am

If you'll pardon the aside: if you see a smart shape in a document, how can you get at its definition? I.e., "which smart shape are we looking at?"

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:01 pm

motet wrote:If you'll pardon the aside: if you see a smart shape in a document, how can you get at its definition? I.e., "which smart shape are we looking at?"
I suppose that you mean a custom smart shape, created with the Custom Line Tool, right?

The “default”, hardwired smart shapes (slurs, hairpins &c.) look so different that you are never in doubt, which smart shape you are looking at.

The custom lines are defined in the dialog box Smart Line Designer.
To get there:
Ctrl-click the palette icon for the Custom Line Tool (Mac: Option-click).
The Smart Line Selection appears.
You get to the Smart Line Designer by clicking “Edit…” (to edit the selected smart line) or “Create…” (to create a new smart line).

In the Smart Line Selection you may have several smart lines that look the same.
As Far As I Can Tell, there is no other way than “trial-and-error” to find out, which custom line you are looking at in the score.
You can select a line in the Smart Line Selection, click “Edit…”, and change the line’s width, then return to the score, and Update Layout.
If the line’s width is changed in the score, then you have found “the one”.
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:52 pm

I've made custom lines, so know about that. For expressions and articulations you can "edit definition" from the handle, so I guess I was looking for something analogous to that.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:24 am

Automatic Music Spacing is unchecked in Preferences; and no, the fingering was not created with the Expression Designer. A long time ago, some of the more experienced users at the old forum told me the correct tool with which to create fingering was the Articulation Designer. To observe drift of the numbers towards the adjacent notes (left hand fingering), you would need to do some editing, save the file then re-open, perhaps a couple of times.

Zuill's approach of using the Custom Line Tool to create "rasg." and the ensuing line with a hook works nicely. But I am unable to "create a blank custom stem" to avoid the need for overlapping notation in layer 4 over other layers. I tried using the Note Shape Tool then shortening the stem as much as possible with the Stem Length Tool, but that option leaves a dot after the "x." Can you give me a hint how to "create a blank custom stem," whereby I can enter a stemless "x" note head?

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:24 am

I used the Custom Stem Tool. I created a shape that is blank. I then chose that and all I get is the notehead with no stem.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 am

That works nicely. I am amazed how you figured creating a blank shape would render a stemless note.

For a moment I thought I could outsmart a troll, by using the Articulation designer to create a stemless golpe symbol. This allowed me to assign the symbol to a note in another layer, freeing up layer 4 that I had dedicated to the percussive golpe. The option even let me avoid ledger lines if the G5 space was occupied. But before I could toot my horn, I realized this approach did not include playback.

Thanks for your magic.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:53 am

While creating some shapes, Finale "stopped working," after which the layers toggle. That is, if layer 1 is selected, notation in layer 2 disappears; if layer 2 is selected, notation in layer one disappears.

BTW, Finale crashes only when I challenge it with flamenco guitar music. All was working OK, until the crash. Is there any way to salvage the work? Attached are the first three pages. The full score is 62 pages long.
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Feria en Abril (Unstable).mus
(138.46 KiB) Downloaded 142 times

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am

You should have both an .ASVX and .BAKX file, unless you've disabled those features.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:35 am

As far as layers are concerned, you have Show Active Layer Only checked. Just uncheck that and you should be able to see all layers.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:55 am

I went into Document Options -> Layers and see no setting for "Show Active Layer Only." There is one for "Hide layer when inactive," but it is already unchecked. I could not find the setting in Preferences. The setting to which you refer seems well-hidden. I must be blind, though I recently had cataract surgery and lens implants. Can you give me a hint where to look? Sorry to be a burden.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:58 am

In the Document drop-down menu about half way down.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:19 am

Never mind. I found it. The setting does not appear in the View drop-down menu. I had to activate the View Toolbar. The so-called manual mentions the feature but does not tell you how to access it.

The step worked.

Thanks again. You are so kind.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:27 am

That's one way to get to it. I was referring to the Document menu, not the View menu. With the View Toolbar is another way. But at least you got it figured out.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:10 am

I guess it's on the Document menu because it's a per-document setting that sticks. I've only used it for occasional special editing. What situation would benefit from having the setting always on when you opened the file?

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:36 pm

I missed seeing it in the Document drop-down menu. Duh! I see no benefit from having the setting always on.

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