Rectangle selection impossible for a 2nd expression/artic.

[michelp]

Hello,

We know how to draw a rectangle to select a region and apply an expression or articulation to all the included notes.
But once one expression/articulation has been applied, unless I miss something, the method doesn't work for a second one (tremolo first, accent second for example).

Too bad. Fortunately, a metatool can keep the procedure relatively quick, but not as much as the rectangle selection.

[Peter Thomsen]

It works with metatools.

Example:
To add staccato dots, hold down the letter S key, and drag across the region.
All the notes in the region will get a staccato dot - even those notes that already have an articulation.

[michelp]

Good to know ! Thank you, Peter.

[zuill]

I can draw a rectangle around an area with existing articulations without using a metatool and apply a second articulation. Since there are more options available that way, I see no reason not to do it that way. Maybe it is the way you are doing it that's causing the problem.

Zuill

[michelp]

Interesting, but it doesn't seem to be the case in the Mac version (I hope some Mac users will confirm this). Metatool + rectangle selection works to add a 2nd articulation (Peter's suggestion), but not the rectangle selection alone. Nothing happens.

[zuill]

I've been testing it in my file sample I created. Maybe it doesn't work in all scenarios. Can you post a small sample for me to test?

Zuill

[zuill]

The dark box selection is for articulations. I'm not sure there is such a method for expressions. I was addressing articulation application only.

Zuill

[motet]

I removed the post you were probably responding to, but I still don't understand. How do you get this dark box?

[michelp]

Here is an example (Finale 25.4). The tremolos were created with the rectangle technique. After that, impossible to add a second articulation with the rectangle selection.
Same is true for expressions.

1_artic.musx

(84.14 KiB) Downloaded 135 times

P.S. I also can see the black lines around the measures when I draw the rectangle (articulations), not with expressions.

[zuill]

By click-dragging around notes.

Zuill

[motet]

By click-dragging around notes.

Carefully! I've never noticed that before. It appears to work only if you start and end in certain places--can't quite guess what the criteria are.

You can also select a region with the Selection tool and then use Utilities/Apply Articulation.

[zuill]

That's true. With the Selection Tool. I was referring to the Articulation Tool. Maybe I am confused about what the topic is referring to. Regarding the Articulation Tool dark box selection, adding second or third articulations is do-able. Maybe this is a Windows only feature, and Mac can't do it.

Zuill

[michelp]

...Maybe this is a Windows only feature, and Mac can't do it.

I'm afraid it is the case (Articulation tool). Let's wait for other Mac user to confirm it.

[zuill]

I would still be interested in seeing a small sample to test. Is this possible?

Zuill

[motet]

It sounds like holding down A and drawing the rectangle works for you to add accents to the tremolos. If the articulation doesn't have a metatool or you don't know it, add one first. It looks like the dark box happens if you start and end within the staff.

There doesn't appear to be a solution with expressions unless you can avoid including any expressions in your rectangle. I'm sometimes foiled by this when there's a tempo mark present. But two expressions on one note is kind of rare. And rectangle application of expressions only seems to extend vertically--if I draw a box around four quarter notes in a measure, it only puts an expression on the first one.

[michelp]

The example file has been added to one of my previous posts.

[motet]

Does holding down A and drawing a rectangle work for you? If so, I don't really see a problem.

[michelp]

Holding A and drawing a rectangle behaves strange...Articulations are not placed in the selected staff.

[motet]

In what way? I don't mean the dark rectangle of Zuill.

[zuill]

Here is an example (Finale 25.4). The tremolos were created with the rectangle technique. After that, impossible to add a second articulation with the rectangle selection.
Same is true for expressions.

1_artic.musx

P.S. I also can see the black lines around the measures when I draw the rectangle (articulations), not with expressions.

Only the Articulation Tool has the black bounding box. This is not a feature with Expressions.

Try dragging just within the staff. If you happen to drag over the handles that are there from the Tremolos, then the box will disappear. avoid the existing handles and see what happens.

Zuill

[motet]

Actually, with the A metatool depressed, the dark boxes appear even when drawing a big rectangle (see below). Without the metatool, you need to start and end in the staff.

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0329.png (44.75 KiB) Viewed 14041 times

[michelp]

A selects the metatool for an accent >, as expected, from the the default files.

[zuill]

Again, using the metatool bypasses some options, so it might be good for some situations, but not all. I still say that the technique I mentioned should at least be attempted to see if it works. If one only wants to use metatools, then ignore my advice.

Zuill

[michelp]

If I draw large rectangle, the black "boxes" don't appear, and no 2nd articulation is available.
I tried Zuill's suggestion to avoid the exiting handles (1st articulation). Then the black boxes eventually appear and I can select a second articulation, but it takes several tries, so it is not reliable.

[michelp]

Defining a metatool seems be the most reliable solution, as one can draw the "usual" rectangle, instead of having to experiment with another selection technique.