Finale Forum

This document has one region of measure numbers defined, yet Finale manages to propose the fifth and tenth measures of the upper stave are not the same as of the grand stave. Funny thing is, that on the 15th measure the numbering magically realigns and remains aligned from then on.

What could possibly have caused this anomaly and how to get rid of it?

If we could examine the file, I'm sure we could find the problem.

Zuill

I assume if you delete and re-enter the rehearsal marks you get the same result. Was this template made in an earlier version of Finale? Are you copying in music made in an earlier version? Those two can spell trouble, which I've seen before, but usually deleting and re-entering solves the problem.

It may have something to do with the reduced size staff on top. Reset the staff to 100% and re-enter the rehearsal marks. Any difference?

N.

You'll notice the offending bars are at the beginning of the system, and from the placement of the upper numbers I'm betting they've just been dragged to the right. If you click on one, you'll see a dotted blue line showing the anchor point. Go to the expression tool, right click on them, and pick "remove manual adjustments." Probably they're centered over the barline, and when you dragged them right for those beginning-of-system bars, something happened. It may indeed be related to resizing the upper staff, though I can't replicate that.

They're not rehearsal marks, but measure numbers ("show every 5 measures, start with measure 5"). They haven't been dragged and should be at their default positioning. Actually, they are at their default position, because "Restore Defaults" doesn't move them at all. For some odd reason Finale thinks that measure numbers five and ten are not the same measures in the clarinet part as they are in the (correct) organ part.

"Clear all items" doesn't do anything on the misplaced measure numbers. Deleting the region and creating a new one doesn't change anything.

Resizing the clarinet stave to 100% corrects the numbering. However, since the upper stave has to be reduced in size in printing and the measure tool clearly is not the correct tool to number measures with in Finale, I'll drop the numbered measures and will use the rehearsal markings expression instead. Yet another tool that I cannot rely on to do what it claims to do and yet another workaround to get simple, standard things done in Finale. Oh well.

I dropped working with templates years ago, since the documents created from those tended to corrupt within the blink of an eye. Come to think of it, freshly created documents do show the same behaviour since 2014, or so it seems.

I think we could put this to rest by seeing the file. It sounds like an erroneous setting somewhere.

Zuill

-

Odd that when I resize, I don't get the odd behavior. I'm suspecting a setting somewhere that examination of the file will show. Usually, when reports come in like this, it's something quite simple.

Zuill

I was able to reproduce it! Have at it, Zuill!

Looks like if you uncheck "show numbers at start of system," that fixes it.

Further exploration reveals that if you give the ones at the start of the system an enclosure as well, that fixes it as well. So if you really want both, do that; otherwise, uncheck.

So, the only measures that are affected are measures that start a system.

Zuill

By the way, it looks like "at the start of system" numbers are relative to the left barline (i.e., edge of staff), but the "every n measures" are relative to "after clef/key/time/repeat." Funky!

Thank you for taking a "measured" look at this.

Zuill

Thanks all for your input!
Yes, the problem is gone when either the stave is resized to 100%, when the measure number is not shown at the start of the system or when the numbered measure is not the first of the system. As easily as all these conditions may be to avoid, none of them should be causing what they do cause, right?
To me it seems that the list of workarounds is actually longer than the manual by now.

Make sure you submit the problem to MM.

I already did.

If one needs to have the measure number at the start of each system in addition to the boxed number every 5 bars, that can be done. However, if not, no need to know how.

Buggy behavior in Finale can often be circumvented.

Zuill

I suppose you might want small, typical measure numbers at the beginning of each system but big, circled numbers every five measures, and a reduced staff. In that case, you would need to resort to rehearsal marks for the circled numbers. But I think in fact one or the other numbering system will suffice, and there's not much to be gained in having both.

On a tangent, I like to have rehearsal marks centered on the barline, but at the beginning of the system that means to the left of the clef. I live with that, but it's a bit hokey and would be better to the right of the clef. One can use "after clef/key/time/repeat," but if there's a clef, key, or time change mid-system, I would want the rehearsal mark centered on the barline, not after the change (the same issue holds for measure numbers like Jay's as well).

Am I missing the solution I want (short of manual adjustments)?

zuill wrote:Buggy behavior in Finale can often be circumvented.

True, but wouldn't it be awesome if the app would work in the way it was supposed to work, instead of all these workarounds. Fortunately, there usually are workarounds, but searching for and learning all these workarounds on top of the already fairly steep learning curve will make the task of mastering this app pretty daunting to newbies. And that's a pitty. Finale deserves better, I think.

I'll get my way around this problem, no worries. I liked to have the measure numbering at the start of the system as well, since this piece has a fairly broad time signature (9/4) and with a lot of small notes in the clarinet part, the fifth measure markings will be quite a bit apart at times.