Colliding lyrics

[ewindels]

Windows 7, Finale 2014.5

I've tried every respacing option I can think of, but no luck: see page. 16, mm. 127. I know there's some solution to this, but I can't find it.

[zuill]

Is there a file to examine?

Zuil

[ewindels]

I thought I did. Maybe it's too large again. 485 K?

[miker]

Even without seeing it, there are generally two reasons for lyrics to collide: long words on short notes, which can often be fixed with either the beat chart or dragging the lyrics, or, too many measures on a system.

[ewindels]

Mike, can you explain both of those, or point me to reading?

It's definitely not too many measures, I've spaced pretty broadly, and the words or syllables seem pretty short. Example attached.

[zuill]

Do you have Lyrics chosen in the Spacing Options?

Zuill

[ewindels]

Yup.

[motet]

How are you spacing? Entire stack selected? Note spacing?

I would suspect too many measures in a locked system (try unlocking). Or perhaps some setting is awry. Turn Automatic Update Layout on .

[miker]

Agree; if that is one page, there are too many measures. The font looks kind of large, as well. And I'm a little unclear about the syllables under a couple of those slurs. Generally, I aim for 3 or 4 measures per system in choral work.

[zuill]

There are many settings that can affect lyric spacing. We don't know all those settings, and we don't have a file. We are guessing. The settings that might be the cause are in the lyrics options window. Maybe we need to see those settings. Maybe a screen shot. Also, what is the font size. Also, are the systems locked? Also, what type of spacing is being applied? So many variables.

Zuill

[miker]

Just post that page, and let us have a go at it.

[ewindels]

Two pages attached. I'm not sure if this will be a realistic representation: even one more page put the document over this site's limit.

Measures are not locked, and even when I space the document wider, it doesn't solve the problem: there's something going on in a few instances, like the one shown, where the program won't acknowledge these lyric as needing separation, as opposed to other lyrics. It only seems to happen on 16th notes. Then again it may something within the lyrics themselves (they're imported from word). I don't want the font any smaller. And it only happens in these choral passages: it doesn't happen with the soloists, oddly.

All suggestions welcome.

[zuill]

I applied Beat Spacing instead of Note Spacing. That seems better. It then has 7 measures on the first page and 6 on the second. That's better than 8 and 5. 8 on the first page (system) was crowded.

Zuill

[miker]

You may not like the answer, but changing it to five measures per page fixed it instantly. Also, since "Flock" didn't have enough room for the necessary word extension, I changed the Document>Lyrics setting to center a lyric with a word extension.

It's always going to be a balancing act between the choral and orchestral lines. If this is a conductor's score, the crowding is probably OK, but if you expect the chorus to work from it, you have to give them the room, and make the lyrics legible.

And just as a BTW, the slurs in the choral part are incorrect. You have them going over to the first syllable of the next word in a few places!

Screen Shot 2017-08-18 at 12.22.53 PM.png (161.19 KiB) Viewed 8460 times

[ewindels]

Thanks Mike. It's a conductor's, vocal scores will be extracted from this with entirely different formatting. So it's not the end of the world, but it's been bugging me.

[motet]

In a conductor's score, I don't see much need to crowd systems. Just moving the last measure of the first system forward seems to fix it, even with note spacing. I guess you might report it to MM, though. Something improved between what you originally posted and what you uploaded. Did you initially have systems locked?

(I think it's OK to leave off the word extension if it won't fit--I see this in opera scores all the time.)

[zuill]

Two settings are also contributing to the overlapping. 1) The font size is 15. 2) The option to left align syllables with extensions is causing the overlap of the word Flock. Change the setting to Center, and that resolves that problem.

Zuill