Is there an easy way to edit an anacrusis?

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:54 am

I have an anacrusis of a 1/8th note in a score with a time signature of 2/4. The last measure in the movement is therefore 3/8ths duration. Now I want the anacrusis to be only a 1/16th note, which means I'll need to add the cut 1/16th to the end measure. The plugin will not split a 1/8th measure.

Is there a simple way to chop a 1/16th off the anacrusis and add it to the end measure, without the labor of deleting the anacrusis and end measure, inserting a new measure to split then cut and paste it in as an insert at the end, after which the last measures has to be reversed?


User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:40 am

Doing it manually shouldn't be that difficult.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:09 am

I don't understand the anacrusis being an eighth note but you only want to display a 16th note, but I suppose you could change the time signature for that measure to 4/8 or 8/16 and then the plug-in might work. You could then either change it back or do "display as."
Last edited by motet on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:32 am

I thought it was accepted modern practice not to shorten the last measure.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 am

I am soooo out of date...still worshipping symmetry.

But surely there must be an easier way to edit an anacrusis. No?

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:48 am

Sorry if I were not clear. I merely decided on a shorter pick-up note for the piece.

I made the change; but the procedure is messy.

Changing the time signature for the measure would require hiding it then adjusting the note spacing as well as moving the bar line back, proportional to the notation.

It is messy enough to delete the two measures, insert a new measure, split it, insert the second part at the end of the movement, copy and insert that measure back as it cannot be inserted last (always places itself in a preceding measure), and then switching the last two measures for the correct order. Adding to the messiness is the anacrusis shown as a single staff system, so you need to access Utilities to fit the measues back to three or four per staff system. The latter moves the bar lines and notation, hence more work with the Measure Tool and Note Position tool. Sigh!

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:05 am

Add Measures, as opposed to Insert Measures, will add at the end.

The way I would do this would be: for the pickup measure, instead of Finale's pickup-measure feature, use the Time Signature tool to create a measure of 1/16, clicking More Options and picking "Use a different time signature for the display" and set it to 2/4. For the last measure, use the Time Signature tool to set it to 7/16, again using 2/4 for display.

The Split Measure plug-in is useful when you want to split a measure between two systems, or change time signatures or key signatures mid-measure.

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:30 pm

To change the eighth pickup into a sixteenth, change the note's value into a 16th using Simple or Speedy. Then go to Document Menu > Pickup Measure and change the duration there. Done.

If the last measure is indeed the last measure (no DC or DS) I'd leave it displayed at its full value. Trying to shave a 16th off its value means nothing in the larger sense.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:52 pm

By The Way:

If you use the Document menu’s feature Pickup Measure, you get incorrect playback.

The first measure still plays back as a full measure.

The feature Pickup Measure inserts invisible “placeholder rests” at the beginning of the first measure.
With a pickup of a sixteenth, you will have to wait 7 sixteenth rests before you hear the pickup.

On The Other Hand:
If you create the pickup with the Time Signature Tool (as described by motet), the sixteenth pickup will play immediately (= no waiting time).
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 pm

I don't mind waiting a few seconds. As my dad used to say, "What's the rush?"

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:16 pm

I seem to recall there are other problems with the Finale pickup--spacing in certain situations, maybe?

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:17 pm

I'm so confused by this thread, as the process to make this fix is easy, regardless of the method used for the pickup. I would need to see the file to offer the easiest method. It would take me maybe 30 seconds to fix the pickup and the end measure, so I am baffled by the thought that it might be difficult.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:40 pm

The problem with the pickup, is if there is a repeat in the playback. Then, those extra beats get in the way.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:45 pm

But we don't know how the pickup was made. We might assume with the automated method in the Document Menu. But we don't know. If it was made as a 1/8 bar to display as 2/4, then the method of changing is quite different. So, what do we know?

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:26 am

Motet, adding a measure at the end still only modestly truncates the work, since I prefer to keep an even number of beats in a score, with the remainder of the split measure at the end of the movement or score. But use of the Time Signature Tool worked nicely for me. Thanks.

N Grossingink's method worked for me also, without any delay in playback that Peter described.

Another option that worked for me was to copy and insert after the anacrusis the second part of the split measure that I had placed at the end. I then merged the two and re-created the pickup measure as a 1/16th. I attach the document.

I'll have to ask my publisher in Australia if he still prefers the remainder of a split measure placed at the end of a movement or score. I was surprised to find that Elaine Gould in her otherwise excellent Behind Bars makes no mention of introductory measures.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 am

I was just responding to "a measure cannot be inserted last" rather than suggesting a solution to your problem.

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:27 am

I understand. But your method worked nicely for me. I am grateful to you.

Post Reply