double time signature?

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peter4
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Post by peter4 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:25 am

Hi,

I need to set one bar's time signature as 6/2 (3/1). I've gotten the 6/2, and am sure there's a way to add the bracketed second option, but am not sure how...thanks!

Peter (Finale 2008/Windows)


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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:08 pm

1.jpg
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Is this what you want?
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:04 pm

Time Signature : 6/2.
More Options : Composite : Display as 6/2 + 3/1

Document Options -> Time Signature : replace the plus sign by character 160 (blank, but it leaves a space) (Mac).

Parentheses can be added as expressions (1 double or 2 single ones).
Last edited by michelp on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:14 pm

:?:
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:35 pm

What michelp said is what I do.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:55 pm

Must not be available in the Windoze version. :?:
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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:01 pm

What is it you can't do? The parentheses? They are in the Maestro Wide font. Set them up as an expression.
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:23 pm

I just use Maestro parentheses, 54pt.

On Windows, the "plus sign" character to use is 202.
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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:49 pm

I used 48 pt on the Mac, but your larger ones do look better. How did you tighten up the space between the numbers? Did it have to do with the blank character replacing the +, or was it something else?
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:53 pm

Yes, miker, you have to find the "right" blank character to replace the + sign. Motet found out it is 202 for PC and after more testing, it is the same in Maestro for the Mac.
This character is blank, but adds a little space, perfect to insert a parenthesis.
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Post by miker » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:38 pm

Thanks, Michel. It was purely an academic question. If I put one of those in front of a barbershop quartet, they would go screaming out the door!
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peter4
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Post by peter4 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:01 am

Thanks for all the replies! What motet posted is what I need to do, have the 6/2 time signature that's there now, but add (3/1) with the parentheses. I've just tried to make an expression using Maestro Wide, but I cannot figure out how to get the 3 on top of the 1, and the brackets around all of that. Could motet or anyone give me a step-by-step? Sorry for the novice-level questions!

thanks again,

Peter

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:27 am

You don't want to do it with an expression, except the parentheses. Follow michelp's instructions, or look at the file I posted. The time signatures are done with the time signature tool. If you look at the file, be sure to click More Options in the dialog to see what was done. There's an expression with the two parentheses in the Miscellaneous category.

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Post by peter4 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:40 am

Ok great! I have the double time signature and parentheses now. But I also seem to have added a bunch of extra rests, as I guess Finale now thinks that there is an added-on 3/1 part to the measure. Hiding those rests in one part hasn't condensed the measure back to its original length, am I missing something?

Thanks a lot,

Peter

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:24 am

If you follow the instructions above, the measure keeps its duration (6/2), no additional beats.
It is the top time signature that matters in terms of duration.
The bottom one uses a different display via the composite button. But it is just for display.
P.S. :
The top time signature and the values entered also have an effect on beaming :
• 6/2 defined with 6 half notes will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 4
• if you use (still at the top) 3/1 instead, defined as 3 whole notes, it will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 8.
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Post by peter4 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:20 pm

Success! Thank you so much, I would be so lost without this community!!

Peter

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:43 pm

michelp wrote:Time Signature : 6/2.
More Options : Composite : Display as 6/2 + 3/1

Document Options -> Time Signature : replace the plus sign by character 160 (blank, but it leaves a space) (Mac).

Parentheses can be added as expressions (1 double or 2 single ones).
I know I ain't the sharpest high C on the staff but I don't see this in the Windoze version. Probably doesn't really matter as I have only wanted to use double time sigs once in my life.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:50 pm

Did you look at Motet's file?

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:54 pm

In Maestro, 202 is the character, I corrected myself in a more recent post. Mac & PC.
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:56 pm

No, I admit I did not d/l it. I suppose curiosity is worth it. It is something I really don't have a use for or at best very little. Finale usually has many ways of doing the same things.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Glad it worked, Peter.

If perchance you have to display composite time signatures in the same document, you can leave the plus sign character alone and let the parenthesis obliterate it. It doesn't look half bad at normal resolution.
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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:31 pm

Plus, any music written with that time signature would melt my brain, so I certainly wouldn't notice the slightly heavier part of the barline!
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:55 pm

P.S. : if the + sign is replaced by a blank space via the method described above, it will be the case for the whole piece. No composite Time Signatures with + anywhere.
Another workaround will have to be used, such as using 2 measures, each with its own time signature, and the width of the first one reduced, its right barline made invisible, etc...
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:06 pm

michelp wrote:P.S. : if the + sign is replaced by a blank space via the method described above, it will be the case for the whole piece. No composite Time Signatures with + anywhere.
That's what I was trying to say in my last post above.

If one doesn't like the paren on top of the plus sign, easiest I think would be to add the plus sign back as an expression where needed, rather than making empty bars with hidden time signatures or making space for an added expression.

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:10 pm

Absolutely, motet.
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