double time signature?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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Hi,
I need to set one bar's time signature as 6/2 (3/1). I've gotten the 6/2, and am sure there's a way to add the bracketed second option, but am not sure how...thanks!
Peter (Finale 2008/Windows)
I need to set one bar's time signature as 6/2 (3/1). I've gotten the 6/2, and am sure there's a way to add the bracketed second option, but am not sure how...thanks!
Peter (Finale 2008/Windows)
- michelp
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Time Signature : 6/2.
More Options : Composite : Display as 6/2 + 3/1
Document Options -> Time Signature : replace the plus sign by character 160 (blank, but it leaves a space) (Mac).
Parentheses can be added as expressions (1 double or 2 single ones).
More Options : Composite : Display as 6/2 + 3/1
Document Options -> Time Signature : replace the plus sign by character 160 (blank, but it leaves a space) (Mac).
Parentheses can be added as expressions (1 double or 2 single ones).
Last edited by michelp on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- ebiggs1
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Must not be available in the Windoze version.
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President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- miker
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What is it you can't do? The parentheses? They are in the Maestro Wide font. Set them up as an expression.
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- miker
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I used 48 pt on the Mac, but your larger ones do look better. How did you tighten up the space between the numbers? Did it have to do with the blank character replacing the +, or was it something else?
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- michelp
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Yes, miker, you have to find the "right" blank character to replace the + sign. Motet found out it is 202 for PC and after more testing, it is the same in Maestro for the Mac.
This character is blank, but adds a little space, perfect to insert a parenthesis.
This character is blank, but adds a little space, perfect to insert a parenthesis.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
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- miker
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Thanks, Michel. It was purely an academic question. If I put one of those in front of a barbershop quartet, they would go screaming out the door!
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Thanks for all the replies! What motet posted is what I need to do, have the 6/2 time signature that's there now, but add (3/1) with the parentheses. I've just tried to make an expression using Maestro Wide, but I cannot figure out how to get the 3 on top of the 1, and the brackets around all of that. Could motet or anyone give me a step-by-step? Sorry for the novice-level questions!
thanks again,
Peter
thanks again,
Peter
- motet
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You don't want to do it with an expression, except the parentheses. Follow michelp's instructions, or look at the file I posted. The time signatures are done with the time signature tool. If you look at the file, be sure to click More Options in the dialog to see what was done. There's an expression with the two parentheses in the Miscellaneous category.
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Ok great! I have the double time signature and parentheses now. But I also seem to have added a bunch of extra rests, as I guess Finale now thinks that there is an added-on 3/1 part to the measure. Hiding those rests in one part hasn't condensed the measure back to its original length, am I missing something?
Thanks a lot,
Peter
Thanks a lot,
Peter
- michelp
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If you follow the instructions above, the measure keeps its duration (6/2), no additional beats.
It is the top time signature that matters in terms of duration.
The bottom one uses a different display via the composite button. But it is just for display.
P.S. :
The top time signature and the values entered also have an effect on beaming :
• 6/2 defined with 6 half notes will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 4
• if you use (still at the top) 3/1 instead, defined as 3 whole notes, it will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 8.
It is the top time signature that matters in terms of duration.
The bottom one uses a different display via the composite button. But it is just for display.
P.S. :
The top time signature and the values entered also have an effect on beaming :
• 6/2 defined with 6 half notes will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 4
• if you use (still at the top) 3/1 instead, defined as 3 whole notes, it will give you eight notes beamed in groups of 8.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
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- ebiggs1
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I know I ain't the sharpest high C on the staff but I don't see this in the Windoze version. Probably doesn't really matter as I have only wanted to use double time sigs once in my life.michelp wrote:Time Signature : 6/2.
More Options : Composite : Display as 6/2 + 3/1
Document Options -> Time Signature : replace the plus sign by character 160 (blank, but it leaves a space) (Mac).
Parentheses can be added as expressions (1 double or 2 single ones).
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- michelp
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In Maestro, 202 is the character, I corrected myself in a more recent post. Mac & PC.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
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- ebiggs1
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No, I admit I did not d/l it. I suppose curiosity is worth it. It is something I really don't have a use for or at best very little. Finale usually has many ways of doing the same things.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- motet
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Glad it worked, Peter.
If perchance you have to display composite time signatures in the same document, you can leave the plus sign character alone and let the parenthesis obliterate it. It doesn't look half bad at normal resolution.
If perchance you have to display composite time signatures in the same document, you can leave the plus sign character alone and let the parenthesis obliterate it. It doesn't look half bad at normal resolution.
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- miker
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Plus, any music written with that time signature would melt my brain, so I certainly wouldn't notice the slightly heavier part of the barline!
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- michelp
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P.S. : if the + sign is replaced by a blank space via the method described above, it will be the case for the whole piece. No composite Time Signatures with + anywhere.
Another workaround will have to be used, such as using 2 measures, each with its own time signature, and the width of the first one reduced, its right barline made invisible, etc...
Another workaround will have to be used, such as using 2 measures, each with its own time signature, and the width of the first one reduced, its right barline made invisible, etc...
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- motet
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That's what I was trying to say in my last post above.michelp wrote:P.S. : if the + sign is replaced by a blank space via the method described above, it will be the case for the whole piece. No composite Time Signatures with + anywhere.
If one doesn't like the paren on top of the plus sign, easiest I think would be to add the plus sign back as an expression where needed, rather than making empty bars with hidden time signatures or making space for an added expression.
- michelp
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Absolutely, motet.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua