JW Validate / accidental mystery

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:05 am

I've just started using JW Validate. It's caught some things and thus is useful, but in my large file I get hundreds of false positives saying "accidental is hidden."

I copied one of these passages to a test file, then reentered the same notes again manually in the following measures, then ran JW Validate; the error message only occurs in the first one, the one I copied in. It's the C# in the first measure. Comparing the edit frames for measures 1 and 3, the difference is that for the error-free version (the one I just reentered), the grayed-out "Accidental" attribute for that C# entry is checked, whereas for the one which JW Validate flags, it is not. The Help page says of that attribute, "If this check box is selected, the currently displayed note’s accidental appears, even if it wouldn’t normally (such as the natural before a C in the key of C)—sometimes called a courtesy accidental," which doesn't make a lot of sense since this isn't a courtesy accidental. I confess to never understanding frozen accidentals, etc. (Edit frame for "good" version (measure 3) shown below.)

In my original, whence measure 1, I ran the Courtesy Accidentals plug-in. I thought that might be the culprit, but when I run it on this test file, it doesn't alter anything. I've reentered the passage the same way (Speedy MIDI entry), but I guess it's possible (though unlikely) that originally I flipped an enharmonic or added the sharp after entering a C natural).

Any ideas? Obviously JW Validate is wrong, but if I can I would like to make measure 1 like measure 3 everywhere so it doesn't do this.
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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:30 am

It turns out that Canonic Utlilities / Clear Frozen Accidentals fixes it, but I can't run this on my whole file because it removes cautionaries. The note in question isn't frozen anyway.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:38 am

Which version of Finale are you using? There are 3 listed in your profile. Do you get the same results on all 3?

Your query reminds me of my own experiences using the JW Accidentals plugin. I started using it 3-4 years ago on Finale 2011, with a circa 2010 Mac OS (Snow Leopard). I found it to be very useful and accurate in finding missing courtesy accidentals. After using it for about a year, suddenly I found that it was giving me a lot of "false positives" - suggesting courtesy accidentals where none were needed for any reason, sometimes 2 or 3 in the same measure. I chalked it up to a Mac OS update I did at around that time, and had no choice but to discontinue using the plugin.

I'd suggest you contact JW and let him know what you've found.

N.
N. Grossingink
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:10 pm

I seems the plugin is just reading the data in the file. The fact that the accidental is unchecked but still shows is a Finale issue. The plugin just looks to see if that item is checked. Since the data says the alterations is 1 but that box is unchecked, the plugin says it is hidden. What needs to be reported is that this is odd behavior for Finale. That needs to be reported to MakeMusic, not Jari. Maybe report it to both.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:20 pm

I had an odd, but presumably related, problem the other day. I noticed a superfluous natural that I had difficulty removing. After an A flat earlier in the bar there were two A naturals, both preceded by the natural sign. I tried to remove the second natural by key-stroke ‘A’ (in Speedy), but it absolutely refused to go. Eventually, I put the cursor on the first of the two A naturals and then applied the ‘A’ key-stroke. The first accidental stayed, as it should, but the second one disappeared.

Maybe this is how it is supposed to work, but it seems a little odd.
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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:41 pm

N, the only version I have the JW Validate works on is 2014.5, which is what I used here.

I had a MM support person tell me recently that unless they can duplicate the problem themselves, they will just shrug their shoulders, so unless I can find out how to enter the note and leave Accidental unchecked, it would be a waste of time reporting it to them.

It's unclear to me what "Accidental" really means. "Raise/Lower" indicates an accidental, and if the Help page is to be believed, "Accidental" is used for a a cautionary. But apparently "Freeze" is needed for a cautionary, too. Can someone explain the concept of frozen accidental?

For a truly hidden accidental (hidden with the * key), it looks like Freeze is checked but Accidental is not, which is probably what JW Validate is referring to. The difference is that in my problematic entry, Accidental is grayed out.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:49 pm

The new paradigm for accidentals was introduce at some point (not sure which version). Things were different before that, but not sure if there were any less issues.

To get the accidental in the Speedy Edit Window, check freeze, then check Accidental, then uncheck Freeze.

My understanding regarding freezing an accidental is that it allows forcing an accidental where the default would not put one. However, that may not be the reality.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:44 pm

I think I've gotten to the bottom of this.

I did some exploring of edit frame flags for various kinds of notes.
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Code: Select all

                        R/L     A       ()      F
1. Plain note           0
2. Cautionary           0       X               X
3. Cautonary ()         0       X       X       X
4. Accidental #         1       X
5. Repeat accidental #  1
6. Hidden accidental #  1                       X

R/L = Raise/Lower, A = Accidental, () = (Accidental), F = Freeze Accidental
It appears that
  • "Raise/Lower" is non-zero if the note is not in the key signature, i.e. an accidental.
  • The "Accidental" flag is checked if an accidental symbol appears next to that note.
  • The "(Accidental)" flag is checked if the accidental symbol is parenthesized.
  • If "Accidental" is checked, "Freeze Accidental" means a cautionary accidental; if "Accidental" is not checked, "Freeze Accidental" means a hidden accidental.
Note numbers 4 and 5, the G#'s. For the second G#, number 5, "Accidental" is not checked because it's a repeat of the previous G# and no accidental is shown on the note.

JW Validate correctly processes the measure as shown.

But now, if you delete or change the first G# to something else, Finale correctly displays a sharp on the remaining G, but does not add the "Accidental" flag to its edit frame. So looking at the flags alone is not enough to determine if an accidental is displayed--you need to check if it's the first of its kind in the measure, which Finale seems to do properly.

But JW Validate now thinks this G# is a "hidden accidental." Evidently its criteria are a) "Raise/Lower" non-zero; b) "Accidental" not checked; and c) first note of its kind in the measure. It needs to check the "Freeze Accidental" flag as well to fix this problem. This is the bug.

One could argue that this is a Finale problem as well--that Finale should have added that flag when the first G was removed--but I suspect those flags are only touched when entering or editing the note itself, not when changing some previous note in the measure, so the chances of its getting fixed are very slim. I have so many of these in my file that I suspect there are other situations leading to this as well, since I don't do much deleted or repitching.

So I'm not going to bother reporting it to MM and struggling to get them to understand. It's probably an easy fix for Jari, but isn't he essentially MIA these days? It's not really a big deal for me since I use the A key in Speedy instead of the asterisk to display a cautionary, so the chances of accidentally hiding an accidental are slim.
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