High Sierra

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Hector Pascal
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Post by Hector Pascal » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:07 pm

I see that High Sierra is able to be downloaded today, or yesterday...!

And I read that Finale is guaranteed to be compatible with it. https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/finale ... gh-sierra/

Any reports in yet from the front line? I am just putting the final polish on a score under Sierra, so I will delay my update until that's done. High Sierra looks like it has some interesting features.

Cheers,
Hector (Mac-fanboy) Pascal.


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miker
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Post by miker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 pm

I haven’t seen it yet, but I’ll probably wait a couple of days.
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:59 am

I've been using Finale 25 throughout the 10.13 Seed testing, with no problems. However, make sure that all your apps are entirely compatible before upgrading. Issues have been reported with a variety of other software.

There are quite a lot of bug fixes in HS -- a bug I reported to Apple in 2011 (and again with each new OS) has finally been fixed...! :P But there may be new ones and other problems too.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:46 pm

I have a colleague who has a partitioned hard drive on his computer. He will clone his main hard drive on to the "test" partition, start up on that location, install the new OS, and start working/testing. If the OS is satisfactory, the test partition becomes the main hard drive and the other reverts to test status.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

N.
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 pm

From the scoring notes blog (https://www.scoringnotes.com/news/music ... gh-sierra/) :

MakeMusic’s Michael Johnson said (September 25):

As far as Finale, there is a defect that will cause the Garritan Instrument For Finale (GIFF) installer to hang on some machines running the High Sierra Gold Master. We have fixed the issue and will post an updated installer on Monday. If you already have Finale installed and upgrade the OS to 10.13, you won’t experience this issue.

Updated installers for remaining Garritan libraries will be forthcoming since they also have this issue.

There are a handful of defects that we’ve found while testing Finale 25.4.1 in the High Sierra GM using the new file system, APFS as well as the legacy system, HFS+. We are working to resolve those issues, test, and release as quickly as possible. As we’ve publicly stated, these issues are our highest priority and we will turn around the release as quickly as possible. It will be a free update to v25 users.

If you’re using Classic SmartMusic on the Mac, don’t update to High Sierra just yet as we’ve encountered a problem. We are testing a fix now and will release an update within the next few weeks. [Knowledge Base article]

We have found no problems with the MusicXML import or export plug-ins in the High Sierra GM. Likewise, there are no known problems with New SmartMusic running in Chrome in the High Sierra GM.

The known issues are:

Crashing on quit with Score Manager open
Crashing on startup after previously closing the app with the HyperScribe tool selected
Crashing when opening/saving files (Lyrics Window)
Michel
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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:28 pm

No problem here. Of course, I already have 25.4.1 installed.

Same with PrintMusic 2014.5, Finale 2014.5 and Notepad 2012 — all behave the same as in Sierra. They work but there are issues. All have been discontinued because of compatibility issues — I can only assume that they won’t install in OS 10.13 and I will never get around to testing that.

SmartScore X2 Pro works fine with Image Capture.app as it did before.

For me, Office 2008, 2011, Adobe Acrobat Pro X and Elements 6 all work as does FinalDraft 9, MasterWriter 2 and others. Again, if already installed (Office 2011 and Final Draft 9.12 will install).

The bad news is that Apple intends to make OS 10.14 64 bit only and is warning everyone now that 32 bit apps should no longer be expected to work. Ok, we have a year...

Finale 2011 no longer works. Digital Performer 7.24 works non-APFS drives. APFS does not work on HHDs and Fusion drives.

Digital Performer 8 & 9 have a minor issue with the license server. You have to re-authorize after a reboot. Otherwise, my 64 bit apps are running fine. DP is noticeably faster on APFS — nice!
Mike Halloran

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Bill Stevens
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Post by Bill Stevens » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:39 pm

Mike,

You say Finale 2011 doesn't work with High Sierra. By that, do you mean it won't open at all?

Bill
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm

MikeHalloran wrote:The bad news is that Apple intends to make OS 10.14 64 bit only and is warning everyone now that 32 bit apps should no longer be expected to work. Ok, we have a year...
Apple's exact wording is, somewhat cryptically, "High Sierra will be the last macOS release to support 32-bit apps without compromise". And you don't have to upgrade on day 1. I'm certainly not putting 10.13 on my main Mac until at least .2.

Of course, Apple said that El Capitan would be the last to install 32-bit Java 6, and it still installs on 10.13. But ignore Apple's warnings about cut-offs at your peril.

If you need to run a new OS but still need an older version of Finale, I recommend the free Parallels Desktop Lite: I use it to run Mountain Lion in a Virtual Machine. Finale 2005, 2008, 2009 and 2011 all run very smoothly on my i7 2012 Mini (though admittedly, I only use for testing rather than extensive use creating full scores.).

I also have Finale v1.0.0; Finale 2.6.1 and Finale 2000 running in Sheepshaver, a Classic Mac emulator, should I feel the need for some masochism and to remind myself how far we've come.

Bill Stevens
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Post by Bill Stevens » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:08 pm

I'm going to ask this question again to push it back to the top.

Does 2011 not open at all on High Sierra?

Thanks,

Bill
Version 26.3 / 27.4 / Mac OS 10.15.5 Catalina
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:24 pm

Bill Stevens wrote:I'm going to ask this question again to push it back to the top.

Does 2011 not open at all on High Sierra?

Thanks,

Bill
And to add to Bill's request, do Finale 2012 and QuicKeys work on High Sierra as well?

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:25 pm

Bill Stevens wrote:Does 2011 not open at all on High Sierra?
I just tried installing it and when it launched I got an immediate "Unhandled exception" error dialog, and the program quits. I don't know whether an existing installation might behave differently. I would suspect that even if you could get it running, you might run into fatal errors regularly.
N Grossingink wrote:And to add to Bill's request, do Finale 2012 and QuicKeys work on High Sierra as well?
Given that 2012 doesn't work on Sierra (according to MM), it's unlikely to get better on High Sierra. Probably best checking with the makers of QuickKeys, who may issue an update if necessary.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:45 pm

BuonTempi wrote:
N Grossingink wrote:And to add to Bill's request, do Finale 2012 and QuicKeys work on High Sierra as well?
Given that 2012 doesn't work on Sierra (according to MM), it's unlikely to get better on High Sierra. Probably best checking with the makers of QuickKeys, who may issue an update if necessary.
I can confirm that 2012 does work on Sierra - I use it daily and for all of my engraving work. The only catch is that Human Playback is unusable, which doesn't matter to me but is a dealbreaker for most users. Quickeys works fine as well. Sadly, QuicKeys is no longer being developed/supported.

N.
N. Grossingink
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Bill Stevens
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Post by Bill Stevens » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:40 pm

This thread got stalled a few weeks ago so I'm going to refresh it.

To answer Grossingink -- my experience is that QuicKeys works on Sierra but NOT on High Sierra. I'll be interested to know if anyone else has different results.

I still hope that someone will let me know if 2011 runs at all on High Sierra. Someone posted that it wouldn't install, but I'd like to know if an installed copy will open.

Thanks.

Bill
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:10 pm

Bill Stevens wrote:I still hope that someone will let me know if 2011 runs at all on High Sierra. Someone posted that it wouldn't install, but I'd like to know if an installed copy will open.
I posted that a newly installed copy wouldn't launch, but I suggested that it's possible an existing app with all its user files in the right place might act differently.

I'd be interested to know (perhaps in another thread) what those using older version would want from F25 to move up. Is it a loss of particular functions in new implementations, or bugs, or what?

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:33 pm

BuonTempi wrote:I'd be interested to know (perhaps in another thread) what those using older version would want from F25 to move up. Is it a loss of particular functions in new implementations, or bugs, or what?
I've got some things to say regarding your question. You suggest starting another thread, which I'll agree to. What would you suggest naming the thread? (So as to give maximum impetus to other members participation.)

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 pm

N Grossingink wrote:You suggest starting another thread, which I'll agree to. What would you suggest naming the thread? (So as to give maximum impetus to other members participation.)
I've called it "What's stopping you from upgrading to F25?"

knjloughman
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Post by knjloughman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Most of my work is writing for various instrumental and vocal groups. I tend to use the same Finale functions over and over. But now the Finale learning curve is getting a bit overwhelming, with bells and whistles that are seldom, if ever, used. Conversely, simple functions like the tempo tool have been removed and it's return will not even be considered despite the many requests consumers.

I understand the need for new versions of Finale to emerge from time to time - the company needs to make money. And I get the idea of being cutting edge. But frankly, as a consumer of Finale software, using v25 for more than a year, I'd prefer to revert back to Finale 2009.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 pm

You don't say if you're on Macintosh or Windows. If Windows, you could probably go back to Finale 2009 with few or no problems. Macintosh is not so backwards compatible, so you're stuck with Finale 25.

With a few exceptions, you should be able to use Finale 25 in the same manner as 2009. Just ignore any new features. The Tempo Tool is gone, but maybe someone could suggest ways to replace it. Its functionality must exist somewhere else.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:17 am

I never used the Tempo Tool because you couldn't see what you'd done easily. Using Tempo Mark expressions (even a duplicate category that is Hidden and won't print) is more informative.
There was a discussion when the Tempo Tool was dropped about alternative methods. I seem to recall there was one thing that could no longer be done, or not without difficulty.

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:55 am

Any expression (not only in Tempo Marks category) can be programmed for tempo instructions (Playback -> Type -> Tempo) to have an effect anywhere in the measure.
Also, the Midi Tool can be used to program the tempo.
Michel
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:36 pm

BuonTempi wrote:… There was a discussion when the Tempo Tool was dropped about alternative methods. I seem to recall there was one thing that could no longer be done, or not without difficulty.
Perhaps that “one thing” was relative tempo change?

An expression can only do an absolute value, as in bpm - the Tempo Tool had the option of setting a relative value, as in 150 %.

If no initial tempo had been set, you could try different tempi via the Playback Controls.
By using the relative value of 150% with the Tempo Tool, no matter what the playback tempo was, the tempo change would always be correct.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I suppose that a relative tempo change can be done with the MIDI Tool (?)
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 am

Bill Stevens wrote:This thread got stalled a few weeks ago so I'm going to refresh it.

To answer Grossingink -- my experience is that QuicKeys works on Sierra but NOT on High Sierra. I'll be interested to know if anyone else has different results.

I still hope that someone will let me know if 2011 runs at all on High Sierra. Someone posted that it wouldn't install, but I'd like to know if an installed copy will open.

Thanks.

Bill
Sorry, I’ve not checked this thread in a few weeks.

Finale 2011 does not open at all for me over High Sierra — neither APFS nor non-APFS formatted drives. I forget the error but can go to my iMac if you need — I’ve only pulled it from one of my test drives. I knew it wouldn’t install after Mavericks but my copy had installed years ago over OS 10.7 and still worked over Sierra (with limitations, of course).

I never had Finale 2012 so I can’t test it.
Mike Halloran

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