Any logical way to write a nested tuplet?

[Djard]

I don't know why I look for answers in the Finale "Manual," the entry for "To create a nested tuplet" is comical. The text reads, "To nest tuplets, simply create one...." Duh! Then again, maybe my IQ is inadeqate for the task.

In the attached document, I temporarily had to change the time signature of measure #4, from alla breve to 5/4 for an extra beat because I still cannot write complex tuplets if occurring at the end of a measure.

If anyone possesses the gift of teaching and can effectively communicate how to write the notation in last three 1/4 beats--to be played in the time of two 1/4 beats--I surely will be grateful. The second attached file shows what I am trying to write.

[zuill]

I can't find an easy way to do a nested tuplet in Simple. No problem in Speedy. However, let's do this with th Tuplet Tool:

Enter a quarter.
Click the note with the Tuplet Tool.
Three quarters in place of two will be chosen.
Click OK
Enter 2 more quarters.
Enter a quarter.
Click the note with the Tuplet Tool.
Three quarters in place of two will be chosen.
Click OK
Enter an 8th note.
Click the note with the Tuplet Tool.
Three 8ths in place of two will be chosen.
Click OK
Enter 4 more 8ths.
Break the beam between the 8th triplet and the last 2 8ths.
Adjust the brackets and numbers where needed.

You're done.

Zuill

[Djard]

The steps you kindly shared do not work in version 2012. Here is what I had to do and as far as I could go. I saw no need to enter a note and then enter it again with the Tuplet Tool, but I tried to follow your steps faithfully.

1. Simple Entry Tool -> select 1/4 note in vertical palette at left -> enter a 1/4 note.
2. Tuplet Tool (left menu) -> click on the 1/4 note. A quarter note with two quarter rests appears under a triplet sign. No "Three quarters in place of two" is chosen and there is no "OK" upon which to click. So I entered two 1/4 notes to complete the first half of the measure.
3. Unselect Tuplet Tool -> enter 1/8th note -> Tuplet Tool -> click on the 1/8th note. An eighth and two 1/8th rests appears as a triplet.
4. Unselect Tuplet Tool -> "Enter 4 more 8ths." Not possible. Project aborted.

Any other suggestions?

[motet]

Learn Speedy entry.

• Ctrl-3. Enter quarter note.
• Ctrl-3. Enter three eighth notes.
• Enter final two eighths.

[N Grossingink]

Djard,

If you want to use Simple Entry, take a look at this. I use Simple with the mouse.

N.

Triplet.jpg (131.22 KiB) Viewed 9175 times

[Djard]

Motet, I'm not a keyboardist with a MIDI connection; and the idea of having to memorize all those keys and combinations to enter notation with Speedy Entry feels like going back to the DOS days and using command scripts. I salute your patience. But your steps did work for me. So I guess I'll just have to get used to using Speedy Entry.

May I impose on you a little further and ask how to enter notes with Speedy Entry? I unchecked "Use MIDI Device for Input," but all I can enter are rests, after which I enter notes with Simple Entry. Whether I press say, say 5 for a 1/4 note or Cap Lock key and, say, W for a D note, I still get a 1/4 rest. For me, following Finale's manual is like following a blind man.

N. I see that you managed to perform the task with Simple Entry. What version of Finale did you use? I followed your steps precisely but was unable to get far. Too bad because the Beam Break Tool does not work in Speedy Entry. What a labor! It has taken me a whole day to write one measure of music, and I am still unhappy that I can't break the beam, without breaking them all in the score. The name Finale is fast turning to ashes on my tongue. Did you overlook a step, or is the problem v2012?

[miker]

I'd go with Zuill's solution. There are a couple of other ways, but they all involve the Tuplet Tool as well. Remember, that's the Tuplet tool in the Main Tool Pallet.

[Djard]

Zuill's method involves clicking "OK" after entering a note with the Tuplet tool. There is no "OK" on which to click after entering a note with the Tuplet Tool. What am I missing here?

[Peter Thomsen]

Zuill's method involves clicking "OK" after entering a note with the Tuplet Tool. There is no "OK" on which to click after entering a note with the Tuplet Tool. What am I missing here?

Perhaps you are missing that Zuill’s method involves the (main) Tuplet Tool (on the Main Tool Palette), not an entry tool’s Tuplet (sub-)Tool.

It can be confusing that there are 3 Tuplet Tools:

1) The (main) Tuplet Tool (on the Main Tool Palette)

2) The sub-tool Tuplet Tool in the Simple Entry Tool (shortcut: Alt-NumPad9)

3) The sub-tool Tuplet Tool in the Speedy Entry Tool (shortcut Ctrl-NumPad1)

[BuonTempi]

May I impose on you a little further and ask how to enter notes with Speedy Entry? I unchecked "Use MIDI Device for Input," but all I can enter are rests,

Have you ticked "Enter Notes or Rests" in the Speedy menu? Using Speedy without a MIDI keyboard requires a bit of setup first. (Which is why I could never get it to work in the days that I was just randomly clicking on stuff, and I gave up and used Simple.)

I would have sworn blind that Simple Entry could do nested tuplets, but a quick check of several versions shows that it consistently doesn't/didn't. Certainly, either the function or the documentation needs to be improved. Or both.

[N Grossingink]

Djard,

I used Finale 2012 for the demo. As far as I know, any recent Finale version (last 10 years) will do this as I have described. Just to clarify, the third step (creating the "inner" triplet) is done with the Tuplet Tool found on the Tool Palette.

N.

[zuill]

I see where the confusion is. I was referring to the stand alone Tuplet tool. I guess it would have been much faster in Simple to use the built in Tuplet sub-tool for 90% of the entry, then use the Tuplet Tool to do the nesting.

Zuill

[motet]

...but all I can enter are rests,

Have you ticked "Enter Notes or Rests" in the Speedy menu?

I'm guessing you mean "Insert Notes or Rests," but that doesn't toggle between notes and rests, but rather toggles between insert and replace.

Djard, I'm not sure why you're getting rests, but a Speedy lesson is beyond the scope of a BBS posting. I think the Tuplet tool is indeed the way to go for you.

[Djard]

I finally managed to write the measure as N. wrote it, using Zuill's method. But I do not think I could have done it without gleaning from everybody here.

You folks either don't want to spoon feed the student, or you are all so far ahead of the game that things like using the forward slash tool in Speedy Entry to break the beam is assumed common knowledge. The Beam Break Tool in Special Tools Palette does not work for nested tuplets.

I'm left wondering if you have another trick up your sleeve to write the last note in a my nested tuplet group as Finale refuses to enter the note. Surely there is a better way that what I do, which is to temporarily change the time signature to a longer measure, like 5/4. Is there a better way? Please don't say Finale will let you write the last note in my nested tuplet group without some special trick. It definitely will not do so in v2012. I did try everything possible in "Music Spacing" in Document Options. Sorry if I'm a poor student.

[zuill]

Turn off the option to Check for Extra Notes.

Zuill

[ebiggs1]

triplets.png (1009 Bytes) Viewed 9049 times

I am not seeing what you are missing. If you follow the instructions as given it is easy.

But I am glad I do not have to play it.

[motet]

You folks either don't want to spoon feed the student, or you are all so far ahead of the game that things like using the forward slash tool in Speedy Entry to break the beam is assumed common knowledge. The Beam Break Tool in Special Tools Palette does not work for nested tuplets.

It's fine to ask questions, but you might find it worthwhile to consult the manual more. "To break or create a beam" is right there in the index and refers to the slash command (which works both in Simple and Speedy entry, by the way). I think you'll save time and learn more in the long run versus experimenting in the dark.

Creating the nested tuplet, though, along with many other things in Finale, are indeed arcane, so don't think I'm scolding you for asking questions!

[Djard]

Thanks for the fix. I had looked for the setting to stop Finale from checking for extra notes but could not find it in Document Options. Aah, life just got simpler.

BTW, I always consult the manual before posting a question but overlooked the entry for how to break beams with a slash. Thanks for your patience.