Finale 25 vs 2014.5

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jzucker
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Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
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Post by jzucker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:30 am

For someone like myself who writes jazz charts and guitar exercises for books, is there any compelling reason to upgrade?

Any improvement in note input in speedy , simple or hyperscribe?

Any better UI in terms of less modality allowing you to use completely drive the UI through the keyboard without having to click on various tools?


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michelp
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Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
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Post by michelp » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:01 am

If you like to work in Concert Pitch scores, "Keep octave transpositions in Concert Pitch" is a welcome feature (for bass, guitar, piccolo, etc...).
Michel
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jzucker
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Post by jzucker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:18 am

michelp wrote:If you like to work in Concert Pitch scores, "Keep octave transpositions in Concert Pitch" is a welcome feature (for bass, guitar, piccolo, etc...).
i'm not doing orchestral scores.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:06 pm

jzucker wrote:Any better UI in terms of less modality allowing you to use completely drive the UI through the keyboard without having to click on various tools?
What OS platform are you using? You can add more keyboard shortcuts on MacOS, and I'd be surprised if you couldn't do similar on Windows. (Does it still do the Alt-menu thing?)

There have been plenty of fixes to small noodling bugs over the life of F25, as well as increased performance, stability and support for more modern environments and frameworks. As I've said elsewhere, you would also be using a version that continues to be developed and supported. F25 has seen 4 updates, which is more than any previous version for many years, and more are on the way. Each of those has had a litany of bug fixes and new features.

Got a pet bug? Send it in to MM, and maybe it will be fixed in a future update to 25. It certainly won't be fixed in 2014.5.

jzucker
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Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
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Post by jzucker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:20 pm

not so sure about the bug fix thing. Almost everytime I've reported an issue, finale support says they can't reproduce. they force me to use screen capture software to prove what I'm seeing. Not sure I want to invest more money in a platform that is not supported well and doesn't listen to the customer base in terms of features.

The UI is in horrible need of an upgrade and reminds me of band in a box which violates all known UI conventions. Having to click on modal tools to get things done is just ridiculous in this day and age...

jzucker
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Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
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Post by jzucker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:25 pm

Finale should look at Adobe's UI model in terms of getting work done. You never have to touch the mouse in photoshop. All tools have accelerator keys to allow you to seamlessly go from one tool to another and there are intelligent defaults.

For example, I shouldn't have to switch to the measure tool in order to move a measure down to the next system. I shouldn't have to invoke a dialog in simple edit in order to create a tuplet that is not a triplet. Amazingly, the latter is easy to do in speedy edit but nobody noticed the discrepancy between doing it in simple edit vs speedy.

If they can't make those kind of improvements and they continue to only look at orchestral users, there's no compelling reason to upgrade.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:19 pm

jzucker wrote:For example, I shouldn't have to switch to the measure tool in order to move a measure down to the next system.
You don't have to switch to the Measure Tool - just use the Selection Tool, click on the measure and hit the down arrow key.

I'd suggest you use the Selection Tool as your main working tool. I very rarely use the Tool Palette and let the Selection Tool do all the work. Keep in mind the following:

√ You can access the Selection Tool any time by pressing "Escape".
√ With the Selection Tool, right click on any measure or object and edit from the context menu.
√ Double click on any object (Key, Clef, Chord, Expression, Articulation, etc.) and you'll be taken to the tool that created it. No need to use the Tool Palette.

N.
N. Grossingink
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jzucker
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Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
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Post by jzucker » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:27 pm

You're missing my point. If you have to take your hand off the keyboard, it's a #fail. I know how to use the selection tool and hit the down arrow. Point being that you then have to click on the mouse to get back to editing. It's a ridiculous paradigm. You should be able to get to any functionality without ever having to move your hand off the keyboard.

If you've ever used photoshop, it's quite similar to finale in that the amount of tools and knowledge to use it is incredibly complex. BUT - the big difference is that they have actually studied how to make workflow quick and efficient so you can do anything without having to manually click on modal tool modes.

what I want to be able to do is enter a series of notes in simple-edit including tuplets (that aren't triplets), create repeats and adjust the measures per line without having to jostle back and forth between tools because getting back to the current input point in speedy or simple edit is cumbersome.
N Grossingink wrote:
jzucker wrote:For example, I shouldn't have to switch to the measure tool in order to move a measure down to the next system.
You don't have to switch to the Measure Tool - just use the Selection Tool, click on the measure and hit the down arrow key.

I'd suggest you use the Selection Tool as your main working tool. I very rarely use the Tool Palette and let the Selection Tool do all the work. Keep in mind the following:

√ You can access the Selection Tool any time by pressing "Escape".
√ With the Selection Tool, right click on any measure or object and edit from the context menu.
√ Double click on any object (Key, Clef, Chord, Expression, Articulation, etc.) and you'll be taken to the tool that created it. No need to use the Tool Palette.

N.

BuonTempi
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Finale Version: Finale 27
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:42 pm

I haven't clicked on the Tool Palette in Finale for years. I have keyboard shortcuts for all the ones I use. Simple Entry can be used entirely with the computer keyboard. Smart Shapes can be selected with keypresses.

Repeats can be created from the Selection Tool with a right click. Fit Measures is Command Shift M. But I'm not going to fit measures until I've finished inputting all the notes anyway, so getting back to the current input point is unnecessary. You can add expressions, articulations; add clef, time and key sig changes in Simple Entry all with keypresses and without leaving the tool.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:37 pm

You might try working in Scroll View and only worry about layout when all is entered.

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