Is there a way to temporarily disable hairpin playback?

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shnootre
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Post by shnootre » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:03 am

Greetings,

I know you can turn human playback on and off with expressions, but I've discovered that that does not affect hairpin playback.

I would like to be able to temporarily disable hairpin playback, so I can enter in my own controller-based scaling (i.e. to make dynamic changes more or less dramatic, as I see fit).

Now, if I turn HP off, and leave the hairpin, and then enter my own scale for CC1 (how I'm controlling dynamics), I see the hairpin fighting with my scaling, and the volume jump up and down for the duration of the passage in question.

Eager to hear if anyone has a workaround for this!
Dan Sonenberg
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples


bvstudios
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Post by bvstudios » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:13 am

I've got something that may be a workaround, or it may simply be too messy for your taste. However, I've been able to make it work for me in playback. I don't disable the hairpins, for what it's worth.

I set the dynamics at both ends of the hairpin, then reset the score or part back to the "correct" dynamics once the hairpin is done and dusted. Because I always make two copies of each piece (one for printing and one for playback), I don't mind if the playback version looks a little messy.

So, as an example- I recently did an orchestration of the William Tell Overture (allegro), and on playback, the opening trumpet fanfare sounded simply awful, totally devoid of life. Nothing I would ever submit to a potential client as a sample of my work.

Six hairpins and several up/down dynamic changes later, it sounds like four trumpets playing the 14 bars leading into the "Hi-yo, Silver!" cry.. (if you're a Lone Ranger fan). Oh, I doubled the trumpets up to add "bulk" to the playback, as well.

It's a workaround, it looks messy, but it does the job.
K M Frye
BVStudios
Victoria
Finale 26, 2014.5, 2012 Print Music 2011b, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2000,1997
GPO4, JABB3, World Instruments.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:12 am

I think playback of crescendos and diminuendos only works when human playback (HP) is enabled. Choose "None" as the style. You should be able to manage the effect also in "Dynamics & Volume" of HP, where the "Emphasis" can be set to 0%.

shnootre
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:55 pm
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Post by shnootre » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:11 am

Thanks,

Just to be clear, I DO want the hairpins to play, but I'd like also to be able to override the ones that aren't performing correctly.
I do notice that I can place hidden dynamics that help matters.
I don't want a separate playback and print file for this particular project (14 scenes of an opera where I already have 14 separate parts files...)

I haven't tested turning HP off globally. But I can confirm that turning HP off with an expression does NOT stop hairpin playback.

What I really want is to be able to just make select ones not play. This seems to be what turning HP off SHOULD do, but doesn't.
Dan Sonenberg
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:32 am

Using the old fashioned method of hairpins should do it: Shape Expressions. Use those in places where playback is not wanted. A bit more work, but a good workaround.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:26 am

If playback of a hairpin does not play properly, delete it and re-enter it. I take it that you did assign key velocity to the hairpin and set the value of the final volume; otherwise you won't get any volume change.

If the problem persists, take an screenshot of the measure -> Selection tool, right-click in the measure -> Clear Selected Items -> uncheck MIDI Data and Markings -> re-enter the notation and hairpin, using the screenshot for reference.

I add dynamics before and after a hairpin to ensure getting what I want; for example, I may place pp before a crescendo sign then ff after it. You can hide these dynamic markings if you wish. But if creating hairpins as expressions, it seems you are creating an unnecessary labor. No?

shnootre
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:55 pm
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Post by shnootre » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:27 pm

Hi Zuill and Djard,

I am not fully following, I think.

First - I always use smartshapes to enter hairpins, is this not standard? I suppose I could enter as an expression, but I haven't tried that yet.

Also, I use almost all VSL instruments. I have their velocity xfade on, and assigned to controller 1. And I have Human Playback set to control dynamics via CC1 + velocity. But in VSL, when velocity xfade is on, velocity actually has no impact on dynamics - only CC 1 does (or whatever controller you've assigned to that parameter).

Djard, I'm not sure what you mean by assigning starting and ending volumes. If I attempt to do this (assigning specific values to CC1), I can see that my inputed controller data is battling against HP's or Finale's attempt to perform the hairpin. I can actually see the xfade level bopping furiously up and down, it sounds terrible.

I suppose I can try replacing with an expression that is not defined for playback in those instances - I'm not really sure if that's been suggested.

I DO see that providing hidden dynamics is a conceivable workaround here. I guess between the options of continuing to do that, or experimenting with expression hairpins, I have something to work with. It just seems odd to me that this is an aspect of Human Playback that can not actually be toggled on or off.
Dan Sonenberg
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples

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