Note Position Tool: Does it not always "stick?"

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Piano Pete
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Post by Piano Pete » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:45 am

I have been noticing an odd behavior with the note position tool or anything that repositions notes/other things. Even with having incorporate manual position checked in the document options, I have noticed that it does not always maintain my adjustments. Is this normal? After a quick test, it is happening in both 12 and v25 on my computer.
Windows 10
Finale: 2012, 25


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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:24 am

If you set "Manual Positioning" to "Ignore", your repositioned notes will stick. I have found that "Incorporate" seems to clear repositioning, which doesn't seem right to me and not what it's advertised to do. Others have reported this is not so, but it's what I've experienced.

N.
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:21 pm

N Grossingink wrote:If you set "Manual Positioning" to "Ignore", your repositioned notes will stick. I have found that "Incorporate" seems to clear repositioning, which doesn't seem right to me and not what it's advertised to do. Others have reported this is not so, but it's what I've experienced.
From the Mañuel:

Choose Clear from the drop-down list to remove all manual adjustments while spacing the music. Choose Ignore from the drop-down list to have Finale space the music as if it weren’t manually positioned; after spacing, Finale adds the positioning to its result. Finally, choose Incorporate to include any manual adjustments into Finale’s calculations while spacing the music.

For me, this describes exactly what happens. Incorporate doesn't clear the manual adjustment: but it respaces everything taking your adjustment into account. This may give the impression of it being cleared, but exactly what will happen depends on the nature of the adjustment.

Example: I've moved the first note in Layer 2 to the left, and then respaced with Ignore. Nothing has been changed.
Screen Shot 6.png
Screen Shot 6.png (16.35 KiB) Viewed 4171 times
Now I've respaced after changing to Incorporate. The note is moved so that it no longer clashes with the key sig; but it still is offset from beat 1.
Screen Shot 7.png
Screen Shot 7.png (16.27 KiB) Viewed 4171 times
The problem comes when Finale has conflicting rules about moving notes in Layer 2, e.g. to deal with seconds or dots, in which case Finale overrules your adjustment in either case.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:44 pm

BuonTempi, your demonstration illustrates the correct behavior as described in the manual. But then, why is Piano Pete having the same unexpected result that I have experienced? I'm guessing it has something to do with context, a particular kind of adjustment in a particular place. That doesn't really make it for me. I'll play around with it some more, but remain generally unconvinced.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:55 pm

As said, when Finale has rules to adjust notes from their usual position (e.g. for seconds and dots), then the adjustment that Finale makes always over-rides your manual adjustments.
The problem is that notes of this kind are exactly the ones that frequently need manual adjustment. It would be good to see particular examples.

MM knows about this and it's on their fix list.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:31 pm

BuonTempi wrote:As said, when Finale has rules to adjust notes from their usual position (e.g. for seconds and dots), then the adjustment that Finale makes always over-rides your manual adjustments.
The problem is that notes of this kind are exactly the ones that frequently need manual adjustment. It would be good to see particular examples.

MM knows about this and it's on their fix list.
Just to clarify - my problems with this feature involve only single voice score staves or instrumental parts. No seconds or dots adjustments.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:33 pm

Choosing to Incorporate Manual Positioning works for me, unless I am dealing with a second between layers where I have chosen the option to have them offset. That over-rides manual positioning. If I want a manual change to stick there, I most often get the result I want by unchecking the option to have the note in question be included in spacing. This can be done in the Speedy Edit Frame, or with Jari's JW Change plugin.

Zuill

P.S.: I believe the setting for unisons also over-rides manual positioning, but I don't have as much need to making changes to the default in those cases, usually.
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Piano Pete
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Post by Piano Pete » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:50 pm

Where is the option within the JW plugin?

---Found it. I salute anyone who makes plugins for software, but man, I feel like I have a harder time finding some things in the UI than when I read Where's Waldo?
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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:16 pm

Piano Pete wrote:Where is the option within the JW plugin?

---Found it. I salute anyone who makes plugins for software, but man, I feel like I have a harder time finding some things in the UI than when I read Where's Waldo?
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