Simplifying key signatures for A clarinets
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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Clarinets in A. The piece starts out in Bb minor, which puts them in C# minor, which is fine. It then moves to C minor, which puts them Eb minor, which is a nightmare. The original eliminates their key signature at this point and indicates accidentals where needed. I can't figure out how to do that. A staff style? Would I then insert the accidentals via Cautionary Accidentals?
Thanks.
Clarinets in A. The piece starts out in Bb minor, which puts them in C# minor, which is fine. It then moves to C minor, which puts them Eb minor, which is a nightmare. The original eliminates their key signature at this point and indicates accidentals where needed. I can't figure out how to do that. A staff style? Would I then insert the accidentals via Cautionary Accidentals?
Thanks.
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- motet
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There are a couple of ways. The old fashioned way would be to apply a staff style with independent key signature, and then set the key signature for that section of that staff to A major. If you've already entered the notes, then pick "hold notes to original pitches" when you make the change. Enter new notes as accidentals, yes.
The newer way is with the Change Intrument function (Utilities menu). Change it to a blank staff. After doing this, in the score manager, click the little right-pointing triangle next to Clarinet in A and Blank Staff should appear. Set its transposition to A and check "Hide Key Signature and Show Accidentals." You'll have to fiddle with things to set up playback. If you're not using Bb Clarinet in your piece, you could change to that and then change its transposition and playback should be good to go.
Really, they need to add "Hide Key Signature and Show Accidentals" to staff styles, which would make this much easier. I find the Score Manager awkward.
Personally, I think modern players can handle Eb minor, so I would just leave the key signature if it were me. Put cautionaries on the C-flats.
The newer way is with the Change Intrument function (Utilities menu). Change it to a blank staff. After doing this, in the score manager, click the little right-pointing triangle next to Clarinet in A and Blank Staff should appear. Set its transposition to A and check "Hide Key Signature and Show Accidentals." You'll have to fiddle with things to set up playback. If you're not using Bb Clarinet in your piece, you could change to that and then change its transposition and playback should be good to go.
Really, they need to add "Hide Key Signature and Show Accidentals" to staff styles, which would make this much easier. I find the Score Manager awkward.
Personally, I think modern players can handle Eb minor, so I would just leave the key signature if it were me. Put cautionaries on the C-flats.
- zuill
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If you're going to insert the accidentals anyway, just do that but still leave the key signature. Try to keep things simple.
My opinion: let the signature be e flat minor and let the player do the work. That's what they're paid for.
Zuill
My opinion: let the signature be e flat minor and let the player do the work. That's what they're paid for.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Motet, wouldn't your second method eradicate the key signatures throughout the entire piece, including in the opening section where I'd like to keep them?
In which case it seems like the staff style is the way to go, since this C minor section is only a third of the piece.
In which case it seems like the staff style is the way to go, since this C minor section is only a third of the piece.
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For what it's worth, the staff style seems to have worked, plus it seems to have retained all my original accidentals. I think I have to do a second round of proofreading, as some of the lines now look like they've transposed off, but it's not terrible.
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- motet
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With the Change Instrument method, you first highlight just section you want to be keyless.
With an independent key signature, there are a couple of choices when you change the key signature, so try "hold notes to original pitches chromatically" instead of "enharmonically", or vice-versa.
Be aware that with the independent key signature, if you copy into or out of that section into a normal staff, you'll get an unwanted transposition that you then have to transpose back. This applies to the cue notes plug-in as well.
But as Zuill said, if you're going to have accidentals, just leave the key signature alone and put in cautionaries (maybe the C-flats, as I said). As I recall, you're making a version of Elektra or somesuch, but this is not worth replicating, I don't think.
With an independent key signature, there are a couple of choices when you change the key signature, so try "hold notes to original pitches chromatically" instead of "enharmonically", or vice-versa.
Be aware that with the independent key signature, if you copy into or out of that section into a normal staff, you'll get an unwanted transposition that you then have to transpose back. This applies to the cue notes plug-in as well.
But as Zuill said, if you're going to have accidentals, just leave the key signature alone and put in cautionaries (maybe the C-flats, as I said). As I recall, you're making a version of Elektra or somesuch, but this is not worth replicating, I don't think.
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Wow, good memory...
The clarinetists I've surveyed have all expressed a distaste for a six flat key signature on an A instrument. And the staff style thing seems to work fine.
The clarinetists I've surveyed have all expressed a distaste for a six flat key signature on an A instrument. And the staff style thing seems to work fine.
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- MikeHalloran
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Ha!RMK wrote:If they can't play music in 6 flats then I'm afraid Elektra is quite beyond them...
(Spoken as a clarinettist who has played the opera).
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
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Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro