4 systems on page 1

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jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:07 pm

Which is the way to put 4 staves on page 1, but with enough margins between them?
In the file attached they are too near one from the next one, and is a big blank space at the end of the page

I appreciate your alwayus valuable help


FINALE 2014/WINDOWS 7
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finaleforum space staves.musx
(94.61 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
Last edited by jose oscar on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:30 pm

You've made a mess of the system margins, which is why you're having trouble. They're much too big. Here are the defaults (units are EVPUs).
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0470.png
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:36 pm

It looks like your margins (page, system) are not defined properly.
Adjust them in Document -> Page Format -> Score and in the Page Layout Tool, Redefine All Pages.
It will take a few trials before you get an optimal result, but after that, you will only have minor manual adjustments to make.
(You could also work in the Page Layout Tool and apply your parameters to a range of pages for page margins, system margins).
(Written while motet was replying).
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jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:37 pm

motet wrote:You've made a mess of the system margins, which is why you're having trouble. They're much too big. Here are the defaults (units are EVPUs).
Thank you motet for your answer.

1) How could I change my margins to the defaults?

2) How could I change to units EVPUs?
Last edited by jose oscar on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:41 pm

michelp wrote:It looks like your margins (page, system) are not defined properly.
Adjust them in Document -> Page Format -> Score and in the Page Layout Tool, Redefine All Pages.
It will take a few trials before you get an optimal result, but after that, you will only have minor manual adjustments to make.
(You could also work in the Page Layout Tool and apply your parameters to a range of pages for page margins, system margins).
(Written while motet was replying).
Thank you for your answer, michelp.
Being my problem concerned to the distance between staves what trials do you mean shoul I take?
Last edited by jose oscar on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:11 am

Here is your file, closer to what you want, I think.
Look into Document -> Page Format -> Score and check the values I have entered (and applied with Page Layout -> Redefine All Pages). (N.B.: I used Centimeters). This took me a few trials.
It is important to have correct parameters in this window, because if you add new measures and pages, they will inherit them, too.
finaleforum%20space%20staves.musx
(94.73 KiB) Downloaded 123 times
You can start from that and fine-tune it.

P.S.: we are actually talking about the distance between systems, not staves.
Michel
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jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 pm

michelp wrote:Here is your file, closer to what you want, I think.
Look into Document -> Page Format -> Score and check the values I have entered (and applied with Page Layout -> Redefine All Pages). (N.B.: I used Centimeters). This took me a few trials.
It is important to have correct parameters in this window, because if you add new measures and pages, they will inherit them, too.
finaleforum%20space%20staves.musx
You can start from that and fine-tune it.

P.S.: we are actually talking about the distance between systems, not staves.
Thank you very much for your time and help, michelp.
It looks the way I was looking for.

A last question: Where could I save those changes for all the scores I'll work in the future? Maybe Save Preferences?

P.D: by the way, thanks for correcting my terminology. I edited the title

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 am

jose oscar wrote:Where could I save those changes for all the scores I'll work in the future? Maybe Save Preferences?
Not with Save Preferences. Create your own templates and remember to always check all the values in the Page Format -> Score window.
Page margins, system margins and other things, like page size, reduction, orientation, 1st system margins, etc... will vary, so you better know how to adjust them (don't forget Redefine All pages after any modification).
You can also modify several parameters in the Page Layout menu (Edit system margins, etc...). For instance, select a system with the appropriate margins and in the window that appears, select a range of following systems to apply the same margins.
Last edited by michelp on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
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jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:21 am

Thank you again, michelp.

I understand then that the aspect of the score I definetely found is not so common for enough people to be considered BY DEFAULT, and it's rather a personal point of view (that one in my case, some other looks in somebody's cases)

Very clear and instructive your message with the explanation, by the way

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Perotinus
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Post by Perotinus » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:06 pm

2) How could I change to units EVPUs?
P.S. To do this while continuing to use your normal measurement system, just type in the number followed by "e." Other letters also work for inches, cms, spaces, etc.
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jose oscar
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Post by jose oscar » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Perotinus wrote:
2) How could I change to units EVPUs?
P.S. To do this while continuing to use your normal measurement system, just type in the number followed by "e." Other letters also work for inches, cms, spaces, etc.
Thank you , Perotinus

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:22 pm

Quoting Finale power user Jim Coull:

You can change the measurement units “on the fly” by typing in a number in one of the measurement dialogs followed by
e for EVPUs (or evpus, or EVPUs)
pt for points (or pts, or points) 1pt = 4e
s for spaces (or sp, or spaces) 1s = 6pt
p for picas (or pi, or picas) 1p = 2s
i for inches (or ", or in, or inch, or inches) 1i = 6p
c for centimeters (or cm, or centimeters)
m for millimeters (or mm, or millimeters)
(BTW, these are all listed in the online docs, I think in the section on the Measurement Units submenu.) For example, I usually leave the default units to Inches, but if I want to move an articulation horizontally over by a small amount, I just type "2e" in the H box in the Change Articulation Assignments dialog, and Finale does the rest.

Note: When you’re overriding the global setting in this way, you even have an extra unit option (millimeters) not available in the sub-menu for Measurement Units.
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:57 pm

The only thing I can add to the discussion is the wish that Finale's measurement fields could do math. That's common among professional level desktop applications. For instance, if a field reads .5 inch and you want to nudge the symbol 2 evpu a hair to the right, you would type "+2e" after .5, hit return, and that's it.

I know - others will suggest I do what many do and just learn to use evpus. For me, easier said than done. I use inches because of ingrained habit - I "know" what .01 inch "looks like". For me, working in inches is absolutely the way to go when adjusting system margins. If your margins are set to .8" and you want the bottom stave to hike up a bit, type in .78", .76", whatever. Gives a fine degree of accuracy for me.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:14 pm

The "do the math" suggestion is a great idea!

What I don't like about inches, centimeters, etc., is that in most cases, the number will get rounded to the nearest EVPU, so if you enter 1.2 inches, Finale will convert it to 1.20139, for example. It's not that I mind that it adds .00139 inches, but five decimal places is rather unwieldy. And when you get down to things like line thickness and ledger line lengths, inches are absurd. I hear what you're saying about page margins, though. I guess I would do it the other way around: have the global units be EVPUs, and use the i suffix for things like margins.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:16 pm

I prefer Points.

The numbers are 4 times smaller than with EVPUs.

And font sizes are in Points, By The Way.
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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:50 pm

I never knew what the font point size measured--height of a lower-case letter?

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Post by BuonTempi » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:20 pm

motet wrote:I never knew what the font point size measured--height of a lower-case letter?
As ever, "it's a bit more complicated than that". :D That's why different fonts at the same point size can appear to be markedly different. Traditionally, point size refers to the block size on which the letter form was cast. Usually, digital typefaces are designed to fit within a baseline of the point size, so 12pt type fits on a baseline repeating every 12pt (with no additional leading).
Peter Thomsen wrote:I prefer Points. The numbers are 4 times smaller than with EVPUs.
But yes: points are nice, as lines can be easily measured as 0.5pt, 0.75pt or 1pt; margins can be 36pt, 45pt, 72pt, and so on. None of that 0.00352 inches nonsense.

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